Overcoming Challenges and Navigating Life's Turns: A Conversation with Jean Marie Jean

Maureen Chiana: 0:05

Hello and welcome to Lead to Excel podcast, where we empower professionals like you to excel in your career and professional life. Our podcast uses insights from neuroscience to help you deliver results by learning to work smarter, be in control of your brain, manage yours and others emotions, change behaviors, flourish and exceed expectations. I am so excited, honored, to have a fantastic, amazing, inspirational lady with us today And her name is Jean Marie Jean. It's so great to have your Lead to Excel podcast. Thanks for coming on, thank you.

Jean Marie Keevins: 0:51

Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be with you. You're always so fun.

Maureen Chiana: 0:55

Oh thanks, jean. I really can't wait for our listeners to really get to hear you and get to know you, because you really are amazing. So I'm going to read out a bit about Jean and then we're going to really dig deep into who Jean is. So Jean Marie is a sort after credited professional life leadership and strategy coach. As an Emmy nominated, award-winning creative executive who has balanced the majority of her career life between the entertainment world and working with the C-suite executives in the financial world, jean Marie's unique perspective contributes to her special source And I must say that combination really does contribute to your special source. So, along with her non-conventional path, jean Marie has not only learned how to get to Sesame Street. She's learned how to make simple and sometimes bold choices that have brought her to a very happy place that she calls life, and I really like that. So, jean, it's really an honor to have you here. So can I start by actually asking who is Jean? What do you do?

Jean Marie Keevins: 2:16

Oh man, i ask that every morning. I love that question. Well, as a person, i am just somebody who's trying to make the best of life and leave something meaningful behind and stay present every day to whatever's coming my direction. Professionally speaking, i'm a coach and I love being a coach, and I that grew out of producing and spending a lot of time in rehearsal rooms and being a collaborator in creative environments. I've had leadership training since I was very, very young and I still don't exactly know where that came from, but you just have to kind of believe in the teachers and elders around you And through that I think I realized that the reason I was in those rooms and being taught to lead very young was my ability to listen and my desire to listen. I'm an infinitely curious person, so if I had to describe myself, that's what it would be. I'm just.

Maureen Chiana: 3:16

I always want to know why, how, what, yeah, yeah it's interesting, because I want to understand what you mean, though, by having been in leadership or having leadership training since you were young. What did that look like? How was your? how was young Jean? Tell us a bit about who you know what that life was growing up, Yeah?

Jean Marie Keevins: 3:42

I can remember the feeling I can't give you an exact example in like, elementary school, of like why are they putting me in charge of this? Like I don't have the best grades, i'm not the most talented, i'm not the whatever. Every thing, every thought was I'm not the, so why are they putting me here? And that just kind of is a memory and a feeling that I remember. But the thing that I remember very clearly was going into middle school, which for us is sixth grade or was seventh grade. I was in sixth grade.

Jean Marie Keevins: 4:15

I was asked to be part of the orientation group And you go over to the middle school and you learn from a big kid, you know how the school works and how it operates And then, as your peers come into the school, you make that a comfortable situation for them. You show them around and you're just there if they're confused or lost. And in my mind there was no good reason for me to be there. It made no sense that I was being asked to do this because everybody else was better, whatever that meant. But when I look back, i was 100% the right person because I was completely comfortable. I was scared to do it, but then, once I was doing it, i was busy doing it, and I think that leadership training started very young for me, where people just kept saying if you ask her to lead, she can. When things go wrong, she will make it go right or at least help keep people safe while it was happening.

Jean Marie Keevins: 5:15

There was something very instinctive about me that others saw, and this is not the most pleasant thought, but in truth I always say I grew up in an emergency room. There was always I'm the baby of the baby in my family, so there was always a crisis situation happening And as a little kid I had to keep it together because I wasn't the center of this crisis And I think that that makes good leaders, and we all say that the best leaders have really good deductive reasoning skills. I think that comes from adversity. So I think the leadership training came from all angles, but I started to recognize it my early teens, if not earlier, yeah, and it's just kind of followed me through. Even going into college I got calls from. I went to two different universities and both of them are you should be on the orientation group. Would you like to be a leader here or a leader there? I didn't have the best scores, but I could listen to the group and understand what they need in order to get to the goal.

Maureen Chiana: 6:23

So you know, yeah, i'm listening to you and I'm kind of going. okay, they obviously noticed something in you. You know, they saw something. they saw someone that wasn't saying no, that will not run away from responsibilities. And as you're speaking, i was thinking but what did they see? Yeah, you know what is it they saw. Then you talked about you know your position in the family, so things were already we're happening and you were able to almost comfort yourself or look after yourself in essence And sometimes that's not the case, because when people are the youngest you know, i don't know how large your family was, but and you're not the center of attention Some people go the other way by doing things where they always become needy because they want the attention. So how did you not do that? How did you then, as a young child, almost say, okay, i'm not the center of attention, but I'm going to look after myself? and you know, look, you know, basically take that responsibility. How?

Jean Marie Keevins: 7:39

Yeah, wow, this is getting into therapy here. I love that question. In my, in my nuclear family, it was just myself and an older brother And he will say when we were young I was the older sister I definitely had higher tuned, more tuned coping skills, but that does not mean that I did not have big emotions or that I didn't demand attention. It just means that I knew when it was okay to take the light right. You know, in an emergency room, it's not about you. In a nursing home, you can do whatever you want. No one cares Right. So probably not the most important thing. So I learned that very quickly.

Jean Marie Keevins: 8:26

Also, i was very definitely raised from a very, very young age with a respect for my elders And because of that you wouldn't want to take the light. Why would you do that? This person's here for a short time, so I would get curious about them while I had them Right, and then when I would be off with my friends, then I have no doubt that I wasn't the total ham in the space And I still was very good at sharing. I've always been like that. I don't understand people who don't share, but that for me is very stressful. But yeah, i definitely know how to take the light. I would not pretend I mean, i went to Papatree, for goodness sake, right, i know how to entertain And I've always been that person, but I'm very, i'm very attuned to what's happening around me And the one thing that I know that I think other people didn't necessarily have the words for until I was older is that I'm a total empath.

Jean Marie Keevins: 9:27

So I feel what's happening around me and my aunt always says to me Jean Marie, you cried about homelessness since you were three. I believe that I don't remember that, but I do believe that And I do remember the first time I asked my father to pull over a car so we could feed someone. I, you know, i. It's very clear in my mind when you know, not understanding and him explaining and having a conversation, and me feeling like that's not good enough And I think that's where the leadership also comes in, right, is the like huh, that's where we're going to keep the bar Now. I'm not OK with that. Those kinds of knowings have always been there. I've been righteous since I was three.

Maureen Chiana: 10:13

That's amazing though That is, that is something. That is something right. So now let's move on a bit, to please. You know graduating, so what did you? what did you end up doing? So you went to college, what did you study and how did you get into puppetry?

Jean Marie Keevins: 10:32

Yeah, I used to joke drugs, but now I know that's not funny Because it's just not a normal choice. But I went to community college. That's a whole nother story. I really want to go to the Ivy League and my family basically like tricked me into going to the school and it worked and it was the best choice I ever made. I went to Nassau Community College in Long Island, new York, and that school at the time was the number one community college in the country. So your professors were from all the Ivy Leagues and they were there writing their books or doing whatever else they need to do their research that they couldn't do in their schools. So I got this really interesting education. But I was surrounded by a group of leaders. Again, i was put into this group and thank God I was, because those are my very best friends to this day Come from that school. We are a tribe, you cannot break us.

Jean Marie Keevins: 11:33

And and leaving that school, i just I had no, no goals. I didn't know where I was going And, as much as I was grateful for my life, i really didn't know why I was living it. I was getting really depressed and I went to the, the chancellor of this very big school because I do have that kind of gumption. And I said I need you to give me a job. I have two jobs and I'm not going to be able to have enough money to get out of here. And he said I will give you a job if you go across campus to the library and figure out what it is you're going to do. Oh no, he said you're going to go meet with the career counselor, and I did, and the career counselor said I think that you should go into puppetry. Oh wow, what.

Jean Marie Keevins: 12:15

And he said you should work on Sesame Street And I was like no, because my father was in television. And I was like no, i am not. And then he listed the reasons you're creative, you're curious, you want to help people, you don't want to be seen, you're good in a high pressure situation, which is television, all of these things. And my family was very, very broke at that time And and we had a lot of illness and stuff. And he said you need insurance. You need to be able to have insurance, you need to be able to help your family. This is a good choice for you. And so I went across campus and I found the big old book of schools that teach puppetry and there was one And they were taking two people that year And I got one of the slots. It was. So to me it was like divine intervention through this man who I still don't remember his name.

Maureen Chiana: 13:05

Oh, wow.

Jean Marie Keevins: 13:06

I always say I want to win an award, not because I need an award, because I do not, but I would love to be able to very publicly say like, whoever you were, you changed my life and I do everything I can to take that information and share it with others so that it can change their lives. You know, like if whoever that man was, that's he's why I'm in puppetry.

Maureen Chiana: 13:31

Wow, that is. That is something. It shows the power of advice You know to young people when they're young. Yeah, that's interesting. So talk to us about getting into puppetry. How was that? Yeah, how.

Jean Marie Keevins: 13:53

So I went to the University of Connecticut, which is known for basketball, football, medicine. Now they have a t-shirt that says top 10 things to know about Yukon. And the last thing is we meet, we have a puppetry major. I think it's hilarious, but it was. When I got there, the professor said to me I'm not going to teach you how to get to Sesame Street. I will teach you how to travel the world And I will teach you how to have a meaningful voice and I will teach you how to be curious. And I said I want to travel the world through nonverbal communication and make a difference. I don't actually want to be on Sesame Street. And he said great, because that I can teach you to do. And somehow I graduated and landed in television. It was like this was the opposite of what I wanted.

Maureen Chiana: 14:42

It was opposite of what you wanted, yeah, but I did realize I could reach a lot of people quickly.

Jean Marie Keevins: 14:48

And I had a very ill parent at the time so it kept me nearby And I had enough money to be able to help with that And you know it was not lucrative. As you know it was not lucrative. As you know it can be for some people, but for me it was kind of a means to an end. Yeah, so I worked in television briefly and then I went and worked in fashion. I worked all over the place My favorite job in my entire life. I worked in a nursing home Absolute favorite job till this day. It was just like the honor every day to show up to work. I loved it because I got to listen to people and learn from them And they might not have given good advice Some of them didn't but their stories led you to good advice or led you to another question. I loved it.

Jean Marie Keevins: 15:40

But now in puppetry I have my own production company. I've worked on multiple TV shows never actually Sesame Street. I have worked with the Muppets. I've worked with Sesame Workshop on their newest show called The Helpsters, which is awesome show, really fun and interesting and quirky and weird. And I produce new works of puppetry. We're about to start touring a new show this summer And my production company also has a school where we educate puppet artists in the craft but also in the business, because it's okay to be the person who picks the lowest hanging fruit or picks the fruit off the ground, but what if you learned how to have a ladder to get the best fruit from the top of the tree? So we work with people who work financially in all of the echelons to consider what are the other possibilities and how to get there. And then we also have a talk series, which for me is completely indulgent because I get to spend time with my puppet artist friends all over the world and get to ask them questions that you don't normally get to talk about. So yeah, puppetry has had an interesting space in my life And it folds into coaching, because I worked for over 20 years now at the Eugene O'Neill Theatre Center, which is where they call it the launch pad for the American Theatre.

Jean Marie Keevins: 17:07

It's where a lot of Broadway comes out of and things like that. And at the O'Neill we have the National Puppetry Conference And I'm very much part of the leadership there, not surprisingly, but I started out as a participant And I knew what I wished was happening. I loved what was happening. But I had wants and my peers had wants, and so when I started working there, i got to make a difference in the way that we ran.

Jean Marie Keevins: 17:33

But also, for me, the coaching is getting in the room with people and getting literally on the floor of the rehearsal room Like, why are you telling this story? Does it matter? Do you care about it? Why do you care? Because the deeper we can get into why you're doing it and what you want us to know, the better the show is going to be. So then, once we know why and what and how you want me to feel, we can map out a way to get there. And that's coaching. It's what do you want? How do you want to feel at the end of the day? Okay, what's the map to get there?

Jean Marie Keevins: 18:09

And did it work? Now you try it out. If it didn't work, meh, now you take the spaghetti off the wall, you try it again, you throw it again. Right, that's life. But for me, i've always had that experience, because my life was in a pressure cooker And because I had theater where we just try and fail and try and fail, try and fail, and every so often you get a win and you're like that was cool. What did I learn from that? Try again, right? So for me, puppetry, it's all related. I don't know if I answered your question or went on a tangent.

Maureen Chiana: 18:43

I just love listening to you because I love the way you kind of link what you do to different things. I find that so fascinating. So, in terms of the puppetry and I think this whole aspect of it's communicating without the voice, but also the storytelling, how do you help people, maybe even through coaching or whatever, because I know you work with C-Suite executives, you work in different levels How do you actually help people be able to bring out their own story or really be able to dig deep into themselves to understand what they want and where they're going? Because one of the things you just described is getting people to reflect on what they're saying and is it actually what you intend saying? So how do you use that aspect to really help people achieve what they want?

Jean Marie Keevins: 19:50

Yeah, i love that question. I have a client who just said to me the other day oh, i was in the supermarket and I was so mad at you And I said, oh, whatever it is, i'm already okay with it.

Jean Marie Keevins: 20:00

And they just started laughing and they said they were trying to make some new choices And they went to get something and they were telling themselves a story about why it was totally fine, you should totally get that. It's like the ice cream, right. Well, it's dairy. Dairy has protein. Right now, it's totally what you need because you're a runner. No, you don't need the ice cream.

Jean Marie Keevins: 20:20

They were having one of those moments and they said I heard you saying to me is that true? And they were like I hate it when you ask me that. And I said do you? And they were like and we just stared at me And then we both burst out laughing because you showed up today. Right, you still pay every week. So clearly you don't hate it that much And we laugh about it because I have a really good sense of humor. So sometimes you know the worst things are you just need a good laugh And it's. Most people have been taught no, that's not appropriate. You don't laugh right now. No, actually, this is exactly when you laugh, because if you don't, you're stuck. So we have a laugh and then we dig a little deeper And that's challenging for people. But it's what I've always done. It's literally what I know And I also recognize that most people they haven't done that, so I'm not coming to the table like you have to do this my way Absolutely not. We have to figure out your way. I have a couple of things you can try on. If it doesn't fit, we'll move on Right. But for me, helping people write their new narrative is about writing a chapter and finding out if it fits.

Jean Marie Keevins: 21:46

I have a very early memory. My girlfriend and I were talking about this the other day. We had a writing teacher who used to come in. She was a volunteer teacher who would come into our second grade class And what she missed about teaching was working with kids on short stories And the amount of work you had to do in a day. The teacher couldn't really nurture it the way she wanted to, so we would take turns and go to the back of the room and sit with this woman and write the stories And she called it your sloppy copy.

Jean Marie Keevins: 22:16

The first page you just write And it's like the vomit draft. And then the next one you write, but now you write all over it And she was teaching us to edit and to think and to ask deeper questions. And my girlfriend, who works in corporate America was telling me that she was working with one of the people who she manages. And the person said to her I'm just trying to get this done. And she said all I'm asking you for is your sloppy copy. And she said and I realized she doesn't know what that is What the sloppy copy means Nobody says that And she texted me.

Jean Marie Keevins: 22:50

Do you still say sloppy copy? And we laughed so hard about it? because I do and I use it all the time. But I love it. I love the thought that your life is a sloppy copy, exactly. You're not going to know what the finishing thing is. The people after you will know how that story finished, not you, just keep editing.

Maureen Chiana: 23:13

I love that. I love that because if I was speaking to someone earlier and it's you know someone that is really stuck in perfectionism. Everything has to be right, everything has to be. But I love your take And I think it really comes through your experience in puppetry because it's that whole don't take it so seriously Be able to laugh about things And because once you do that, you're actually allowing your brain to explore more, be more creative, be more open. But when we get stuck in this is the way things should be We're really shutting out that creative part of our brain and also shutting out a lot because we don't see things that even opportunities that could be in front of us we could miss. So I really love how you bring in the humor, the calmness, the ease into everything you do and how you help people through it.

Maureen Chiana: 24:19

There's something I want us to touch on And I think this links with your coaching and also your leadership. You know the fact that you've been in leadership And I know you touched a bit on. you know how you went through a tough time growing up. You know a lot of illnesses And I know your dad. you told me a story and I want you to tell? to tell the story now.

Maureen Chiana: 24:43

The story about when your dad was in the nursing home And it yeah, i don't know if you're really right, Oh we're describing it to him Yes, yes, so because before he went into the nursing home, so you needed, you needed to make a decision. That was it, because I think this is just so powerful in terms of how we view things. Our perception of life is what really determines how we view life and then how we live life and how life then impacts on us as well. So please tell us that story.

Jean Marie Keevins: 25:24

Yeah, i forgot. I told you that I knew that there was a story you wanted me to tell today and I couldn't remember what it was. So my father was very, very ill and he he had been in one nursing home and had to go into the hospital, and he was in the hospital for prolonged period of time, so he had already had an experience of a very high end, really nice, like if you had to be in a nursing home, this is where you'd want to be experienced. And his bed was gone, right, that's what happens in this country. I don't know if that's what happens in every country, but they don't hold your bed, and so he had to go someplace else and his needs were much bigger. So most places didn't want him And it was just an awful situation for him, for my family. I kept saying to the nurse I think he has a fever to keep him in the hospital longer.

Maureen Chiana: 26:11

Oh bless.

Jean Marie Keevins: 26:13

Just because and and I would like report things that were kind of true just to keep them there an extra day or two. And so we finally found this place. That was like we don't have a choice, this has got to be where he goes. And it was awful. It was awful. And we got there and I was like, well, that's not okay, right, i'm not okay putting my father in this place, and this is not forever, this is now. So how are we going to get through now? And because all it takes is one infection and we can start looking for another place, right? So so we went to the place and I got there and I looked around and I just tried to look through it through his best lens. What would he like the most? And what would make him feel the most comfortable and joyous? I really like, if I was him on a really great day, what would this be like? And so I went back to the hospital And I think I was telling you to this day, i wish that I had a video from my uncle's face, because he was like What are you talking about? I said to my father so, when you pull in, and all of this was true, just for the record, all of this was true.

Jean Marie Keevins: 27:24

When you pull in, there's a patio out front with some picnic tables and there are people gathered And the truth was there was like a moss covered cement thing that broken down tables were on. It was not good, but from his view in the ambulate I knew he would see that first. So it was like and people are gathered there, so that would be great. And I said and some of them are younger, there'll be people your age And when you go in the door there's this beautiful like plum maroon paisley wallpaper that goes down the wall and there's a really lovely chair rail. The building on the outside and inside is like this buttercream And as you move down the hallway there's music playing, which is really lovely. And you'll turn the corner and there's light like it just comes bathing through the window and just past that bank of windows is your room To my uncle.

Jean Marie Keevins: 28:21

You walked in, there was music glaring from the kitchen and there was this beat up wallpaper And you know the walls were kind of dirty And the windows were, like you know, breezy and not very good and kind of lad when the wind blew And then there was this little hole in the wall And that's where my dad was going to be. But because I told him the buttercream, which is a color he loves, and the paisley, which both of my parents how do these people have this many? How do these people have this many paisley shirts, i still don't know In maroons, and they had a paisley wallpaper in their bedroom, so I knew that that wallpaper would bring him comfort, and he always loved big banks of windows. That was something that always got my father excited, And so all I did was share with him the gathering space that he wanted and the piece of home that he missed in the last place, and the sound of music.

Jean Marie Keevins: 29:20

My father loved music, so he would know that he didn't have to be quiet. He could play music in his room And that light that made him feel comfortable and warm, he could come out of his room and sit in front of this warm space. So for him, when he arrived, he saw what I told him, because that story made this thing that you have to do more comfortable, and even though it was a little bit skewed, there wasn't one thing I said that wasn't true. It was the language around it that made it okay, and I do want to say I don't think that everything in life is okay or that we should make it okay, but we should make it manageable for us so that our brains can keep staying curious and looking for the next story.

Jean Marie Keevins: 30:08

The minute we're sitting in negativity, we're done. So you can acknowledge like, oh, that wallpaper is a little ripped. I wonder if they're going to fix it, as opposed to look at this beat up wallpaper, which I did also go through one day with a marker. My brother was like are you coloring wallpaper? Shut up Because I knew it was bothering my father And I was like they're not going to fix it, i'm going to. At least he'll see an attempt, exactly. But you know those stories when we tell ourselves, when we reprogram our brains for our shoulders to come down and our breath to relax, we can move forward. It doesn't make the circumstances you're in acceptable. That's never what I'm saying, but I do think I mean. Look at how people thrive in refugee camps. Nobody should be in a refugee camp, exactly. Yeah Right, there's nothing okay about that existing. However, brilliance has thrived there.

Maureen Chiana: 31:08

Exactly.

Jean Marie Keevins: 31:09

So yeah, thanks for asking me, i forgot.

Maureen Chiana: 31:12

Yeah, no, thank you. Thanks so much for sharing that, because when you told this to me I went wow, it's so true, because it's the lens through which we see things. So I think the question I wanted to ask there was so, when your dad came and saw what you had described, how was he, how did he take it? Did he kind of see through your lens, you know, or what?

Jean Marie Keevins: 31:38

happened. Well, i'll never know for sure, right, but because he was terrified and it's painful to move from one space to the other, so I'm sure he didn't feel well. Like I'll never know the truth. What I do know is that he whether he was just impressed that I could do that or that he actually saw it it did bring him joy. He did smile about it. He did say to me like it's exactly what you said, i'm bliss.

Jean Marie Keevins: 32:08

You know. So, even though I think he was probably like really, this is it. Yeah, it gave him something else, something else, yeah.

Maureen Chiana: 32:19

Something else.

Jean Marie Keevins: 32:19

I don't know what it was, I never will, But I it was a different experience than the first time he went into a nursing house you know, where it was just terror and you know, all of this anger and all this. this was like, oh, okay, We were able to prepare him, or I was able to bear him in a different way.

Maureen Chiana: 32:38

Yes, yeah, and it's, it's, yeah. I think that's the key, isn't it? Because if you had come up with oh, it's, you know that it's okay, it's just there, he would have gone in and seen everything that was wrong. But because of what you had done, you know, he would have seen, like you said. He would have probably seen it and go oh wow, you know the way she's even painted the picture. I can at least see some of that. I see it.

Jean Marie Keevins: 33:08

That's what my I will never forget my uncle's face. I'm going to send this to him afterwards. I'll be curious if he's not, like what are you talking about? But my, my brother said to him this is her skill, Because no one in my family understood me at that time in life. Like who goes into school for puppetry and what is this? Like I'm from a sports family. Like they had no clue. But he, my brother, was very aware. Like you are not sure how she navigates life. This is how.

Jean Marie Keevins: 33:38

I can't feed everybody, but I can feed you. So here's my food. Right, i can't do, but I can. I can help you. There's one thing I can do And that, for me, brings down, because I have anxiety.

Maureen Chiana: 33:53

You know, like I'm not different than anyone else, but I know how to get it down and how to get a grip, exactly, yeah, you know and and the stories we tell ourselves are just so important because whatever you tell your brain, that is what it works with And that's why what you did was just so powerful and just amazing. And there's something else that you taught. you said to me and you said I think you said I'm a major in stockedness. Is it stockedness?

Jean Marie Keevins: 34:24

Yeah, that's it. I made up a word, exactly.

Maureen Chiana: 34:28

Can you talk to us about that, because it links in with what you've, what you've, just the story you've just told us, yeah, you're a great listener.

Jean Marie Keevins: 34:36

Yes, stuckedness. I think that that people live in this space of stuckedness, right, we, we are stuck, we don't know how to be unstuck. It's like somehow there's life gum and us, right, and like everything is just. No, you don't have gum stuck to you, you know, you're fine. And for me, when it comes to stuckedness, i like to say to people okay, where are we going, how are we going to get there And what tool do we need? And when I, when I use that gum analogy, like the gum on the bottom of your shoe, you can go, but it's still going to be sticky, sticky, sticky as you walk right, until you get something to scrape it off for, until you, however it is, you get a different pair of shoes, you walk in a different way, so it doesn't happen again. To me, that's the majoring in stuckedness. Right, oh, i was stuck. Now there's like this residual thing. How do I shed that? Sometimes, when I'm stuck, maybe I just need to wait a minute. Yeah, what tool do I need to just and one thing scrapes that off and go.

Jean Marie Keevins: 35:38

You know we all have different approaches, but I think a lot of moments in life need a different approach, whether it's that we're pausing and taking a breath and thinking about it. We're saying no. I trained for this moment. I know exactly what to do And trust and move on. Everybody has different approaches, but discovering them to me is almost the fun juicy part, and it's not to most people. I get that, but I do think that when we're stuck, that's when the biggest ideas come, that's when the most opportunity comes. You know, years ago I broke my knee cap in half and it was a very how did you do that?

Jean Marie Keevins: 36:23

Yeah, i tell people I was skiing, but the truth was I tripped on a subway step and I have packages in both hands. I put my knee down But in doing that and I tore off all the ligaments. So, like the whole repair was a nightmare And it was two years of rehab and surgeries and all of that And that experience, i had no choice to stop. Yeah, and recently I've caught myself saying I just don't want that to be part of my narrative anymore, and I've. I'm realizing of course that's part of your narrative, absolutely. It can be a smaller part. You know it's going from a section of a book to a chapter of a book And I look forward to it being two pages, but right now it's still a significant part because I'm still, you know, rebounding in a lot of different ways and learning new things.

Jean Marie Keevins: 37:19

But because that happened, my relationship with my family changed, my relationship to money changed, my relationship to work changed. I wrote two plays. You know, like all of these things happened that would not have happened, but I can tell you, when it comes to the changing the story, when I fell, i have been getting ready to go do a project I didn't want to do And when that happened, i was like, well, there goes the project. And while I was waiting for the surgeon at the hospital, i remember thinking what would have happened? Not that I could change you know the fate of that moment, yeah, you know. But what would have happened if I had just left the job? Yeah, would I have ever been in this moment? Maybe, but also maybe not, maybe not, you know.

Jean Marie Keevins: 38:08

And so for me, the lesson has been the listening. Yeah, You knew you didn't want to go. Doesn't mean that that would have changed, but it could have And I could have taken more control and I could have already been in a position that would have. When that happened, i had a different trajectory. Instead, it was like life altering in this really massive, shocking way. Now I listen a lot more and I feel badly for some people because I will regularly say no, i'm so sorry, that's not what I said and I'm not going to do that. I know that. I'm only sorry because it's upsetting to them.

Maureen Chiana: 38:47

Yes.

Jean Marie Keevins: 38:48

Not because I spoke clearly or I meant what I said or that I know what I want. No, I'm not, particularly as a woman. No, I'm sorry, I'm not going to apologize for being fem. That's not happening.

Maureen Chiana: 39:03

Yeah, and I think that's so important, isn't it? Knowing your own boundaries, knowing what you want and what you don't want, so, so, so, so important. I've been able to stand courageously. I would say and go no, no And no, it's okay.

Jean Marie Keevins: 39:22

Yes equally say I'm not quite sure right now. Absolutely You know what I'm going to need to think on that Exactly, and that's okay. That's okay, right, if that?

Maureen Chiana: 39:33

is important. Yes, that is actually important, yeah.

Jean Marie Keevins: 39:38

Have the courage to not know. Yes, don't know. So every time somebody comes to me and says they're scared, i say actually, you're very courageous because you're coming and saying I don't know, i need help and I can't do it alone. Can we figure this out together? Exactly, yes, we can?

Maureen Chiana: 39:58

I love the way you frame things or reframe, and it's just so, so great to just see someone doing it, because you know, honestly, what really holds people's stock is the narratives that people create about situations, and I just love the way you really reframe things. So, as a coach, how do you, who do you work with specifically now And how do they? how do you work with people?

Jean Marie Keevins: 40:34

Yeah, i don't. Just to be clear, i don't work with people who have a certain job or have a certain income. I work with people who are in a certain place in their life. So that's where I say this to the stuckiness right. Yes, i look for high potential people, and when I say that I mean people who are willing to do the work to get what they want. And if they don't know what they want, that they're willing to do the work to discover that. Those are the people that I work with.

Jean Marie Keevins: 41:07

I work with people who have a want or want to change, who are willing to do all of the messy stuff to get there. And, by the way, sometimes it's not that messy, sometimes it's literally like so go call Bob And then it's done. You know, like one phone call we're done. Now I'll never see you again. You know some people I work with for years, but it's yeah, i don't.

Jean Marie Keevins: 41:33

For me as a person, it's very important to me not to say I only work with C-suite people who do this thing and they make this much money. That's not me, or at least that's not me in this moment in life. In this moment in life, i want to be very open to people who are looking for change, whether that be in business or at home, or but they they're going to make it, and sometimes they also need therapeutic support as well as coaching support, and I think that's great too. I'm a big fan of coaching people who are also interested in therapy, because coaching starts now and we move ahead. We're not going to sit in your past Right. There's another place to do that.

Jean Marie Keevins: 42:17

And I'm not qualified and I don't want to be.

Maureen Chiana: 42:20

Exactly it's knowing, isn't it? Yeah, that's awesome. Go, jim, we've run out of time, but I could talk to you. I could keep. I could go on and on and on.

Maureen Chiana: 42:31

So, jim Marie, could you now tell us because we've come to the end and I just wanted to give us your final word of wisdom I'm going to put your details in the description so that if anyone wants to reach out to Jim Marie to really talk about what she does actually, how she can help you come out of being stuck, you know, if you, if you feel that you're in that place of being, in that place of stockedness I love that word Jim can help you, and just knowing how to reframe your situations change the story you're telling yourself and you know bringing that humor, joy through to your situation. Please reach out to her because she truly is amazing And you can see how she winds up what she's done from. You know, being a young leader I'll call a young leader to get it into perpetuity, i think, just linking all those things together with her passion for caring about people, really wanting to help people, you can really see that through. You know the conversation we've had and what she does. So please reach out to her details in the description. So, jim Marie, please give us one final word of wisdom that people that we can hold on to and take away with Yeah, i think, oh wow.

Jean Marie Keevins: 43:53

I think that that people deserve to live a joyous life. They deserve it. They deserve to feel whole and present wherever they are, And often that takes some skills, So I'm happy to work with them to find that.

Maureen Chiana: 44:11

Like that. People deserve to live a joyous life, and that is so true, and a lot of times people don't realize that they deserve that. So that's a good one to end with. Thank you so much, jim Marie, for coming on to Lead to Excel podcast.

Jean Marie Keevins: 44:27

Thank you, thanks for having me. I love seeing you.

Maureen Chiana: 44:31

Three things before we finish today. Have you subscribed to this podcast? If you haven't, make sure you click that subscribe button wherever you listen to this podcast, because once you subscribe, you will not miss an episode. And, as usual, if you have a topic you would love me to speak about or bring a guest on, do let me know by leaving a review. Finally, do have a fantastic week And remember that you are limitless, so I look forward to seeing you in our next episode. Bye for now.