Charting New Horizons: Transforming Career Setbacks into Opportunities with Lora Poepping -E99

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome, welcome, welcome. You're tuning into the Lead to Excel podcast, the hub where science meets leadership and transformation begins. I'm your host Morinciana, founder of the Mindsite Academy, a trailblazer in the world of neuro-leadership, I'm an executive neuro-coach, leadership transformer and a neuroscience enthusiast, dedicated to empowering leaders, entrepreneurs and changemakers like you. Every week, we delve into the heart of neuroscience to discover how you can unleash your potential, master your brain, manage emotions in yours and others, alter behaviors and exceed expectations. We're here to help you not just to survive, but thrive and flourish in the fast-paced world around us. It's time to elevate your leadership, to excel, and so hire, let's dive right in. Oh my gosh, I am absolutely excited to be back with another episode and I have, oh wow, a fabulous, amazing lady, laura Pepin. It's so good to have you on this podcast. If you know how long I've been saying to myself get in touch with Laura, she needs to be on the Lead to Excel podcast. You won't believe it. Thank you for saying yes immediately and thank you for being here today.

Speaker 2: 1:35

Oh my gosh, morinciana. Well, we've known each other a little while now. We met through Elevate, a women's organization, that's right, and I think in our very first Elevate meeting where you were on it, we were like, let's look at each other.

Speaker 2: 1:50

We were looking at each other like we need to get to know each other and I think we immediately set up a date to connect, because I'm in Seattle and you're in Great Britain and we just felt a connection, it just felt right and I'm so delighted to be on your podcast and I've been a listener and I feel a little awkward about being on it, because I love being a listener, but it is such a privilege to be with you.

Speaker 1: 2:20

Oh, I'm so pleased you're here and I'm just going to introduce Laura briefly and then we will get chatting. So Laura is the president of Plum Coaching and Consulting, a firm that provides job search and career coaching, hr consulting, career transition guidance and LinkedIn expertise throughout the US and abroad. It's so good to have you here, laura, and I'm just going to start this conversation by saying how did you get to starting Plum Coaching and HR consulting? Because I know previously you worked with Microsoft for a few years. So if you kind of just take us back to early days of Laura's career and how you, what made you?

Speaker 2: 3:10

set it up. Well, thank you for asking. You know, not very many times in our lives do we get to just really tell our story, and I try and tell it as succinctly as I can. So let me know if you want me to go a little bit deeper. I started my career in doing communications work for National Public Radio, so I actually thought that was going to be my career path. And then I accidentally, without getting into too many details, went into higher education administration and I thought that was going to be my career path and I got a master's degree from Indiana University where, if you're outside the US, Indiana University is in Bloomington, Indiana, one of the middle states in the United States, and if you're from the United States and you're from the Midwest, you're rolling your eyes right now, but it is where I met my now husband, so I have a lot of good feelings about Indiana, or what's called IU.

Speaker 2: 4:11

After that, I ended up working for the Smithsonian Institution, which a lot of people have visited in the United States and Washington DC, and then transitioned back into higher education when I moved to be closer to my then boyfriend, Scott, who I'm married to now for 33 years. Crazy, I got married when I was 10. I ended up moving back to the Bay Area, which is where I'm originally San Francisco Bay Area, which is where I'm originally from and my husband said to me you know, higher education doesn't pay that well. It's a very wonderful career, but have you ever thought about transitioning to business? And I ended up moving into recruiting and I started my career in recruiting for Deloitte and spent 13 years with Deloitte, had an amazing career in San Francisco, in the Bay Area, in the San Francisco Bay Area, and then moved on and did a year with PricewaterhouseCoopers, which is another accounting firm well, well-known accounting firm. When my husband got a job offer in Seattle, we and our one at that time less than one year old daughter moved up to Seattle and I started a career doing recruiting for Microsoft, which is a small software company that some people may have thought of, may have heard of, and I ended up in at Microsoft, also for 13 years. I had an amazing career there and doing recruiting and human resources and executive onboarding and a number of other things in diversity and inclusion work. And this is where the big pivot takes place and this is a pivot that so many of your listeners will really understand. So I promise that this story goes somewhere.

Speaker 2: 6:15

So in 2008, when the economy took a very significant hit, 3,500 of my closest friends at Microsoft and I were laid off. And when I was laid off, I ended up using the connections. I had to do some contract work, when a lot of people do that, and during the time I was doing contract work for a few years, I ended up doing something that makes perfect sense now to me, which is a lot of people said oh, you were a recruiter, I'm trying to look for a job. I don't know how to find a job. Can you advise me on what I'm doing wrong? And so I would treat people to coffee. That's when Starbucks stock started going up because I was treating to so many coffees for free, Because if you're out of a job, you can't ask someone to meet with you and not treat them to coffee. So I would treat them to coffee and they would get jobs.

Speaker 2: 7:14

And I was having lunch I think it was happy hour so we were having cocktails with a dear friend of mine, Mary Beth mains, and Mary Beth was asking me what did I think I wanted to do next, Because she would just finished up her coaching certification. So, as all good coaches, they're trying all this coaching skills out on their friends. And so she asked me what I want to do and I said well, Mary Beth, one of the things I really enjoy is I really enjoy coaching people on their job search, taking what I know about how people are hired from my years at Deloitte, Price, Butterhouse and Microsoft and some startups, and telling them how to execute a job search that's thoughtful, strategic, impactful, and I really enjoy it. And she said, well, why don't you monetize it? And I said, oh, Mary Beth, bless your heart. As they say in the United States South, that's a favor, not a business. And she said, well, why not? And that was here's our number 13.

Speaker 2: 8:22

Again 13 years ago, Maureen, I started PLUM as a job search coach serving women and recent college graduates, and 13 years later, I've got a team of almost 20 coaches, HR consultants, resume writers and career coaches. So I do very little career coach or very little coaching these days. I'm actually running the practice. So very long story. But what I really wanna drive home is that life is a circuitous route for many of us. And here I am. Who would have thought that I'd end up going from thinking I'd be having a career in national public radio all the way to now running a practice here in Seattle for 13 years Of 13 years.

Speaker 1: 9:11

That's incredible. That's amazing. I was actually going to ask you, when you were treating these ladies to coffee, were you charging them? But it looks like you were not charging.

Speaker 2: 9:23

No, I wasn't.

Speaker 1: 9:24

No, I was losing.

Speaker 2: 9:26

I was losing many because I was treating to some pretty expensive lattes Exactly, and not to diminish the value of a good Starbucks latte. But when people ask you for a favor and they're out of work or they're looking for work, you don't feel like you can ask them to treat it, Even if you're doing them a favor Interesting.

Speaker 1: 9:47

So I was doing you a great job, yeah right, okay, and then you then turned this into a business. How was it, in terms of not making that shift to making a business, that you were charging? How did you feel also about the charging, because that is one area lots of women in particular struggle with the pricing, with how to charge people Because, like you said, they're out of work anyway. So how does a lot of them are probably out of work, so how did you navigate that?

Speaker 2: 10:24

Well, that is a great question, because I was not. I didn't consider myself a business person or an entrepreneur. I'd always worked for big corporations. I thought it was a total corporate gal and when I started my practice, I was really doing it blindly. And I started with only 1500 US dollars to get it started, to start a very simple website and my marketing was just emailing all my friends and I'm telling them what I was doing.

Speaker 2: 10:57

The pricing was one of the most difficult things because, understandably, people do not like to share or be transparent about what they're charging. If they have their own practice and I understand that, I totally understand that it's proprietary and it feels awkward. And women, a lot of women, are gonna really understand this. Women really don't like to talk about money very much and we're very generous. I hate to be. I hate to make a blanket statement. Not everyone is generous, but many women I've met are, especially when they're launching their practice.

Speaker 2: 11:34

So I had to really do it by feel at the beginning and after a couple of years I realized that while I was married to my husband, who has an MBA, I really wanted to separate church and state. I really wanted to just be married to my husband and not have him advise me. And so I hired a business coach, and this business coach, lenora Edwards, gave me such good guidance, and one of the very first things she said to me is stop thinking of yourself as a coach and start thinking of yourself as being a business person who is all about making money, not in a money-grubbing way. But you gotta do things and set up strategies as a business. Hire an admin, hire a bookkeeper, get on it to really get focused around what your profit and loss statement looks like. Get serious, laura, because this is important to sustain a business. And so that's how I finally got serious and realized this isn't just about coaching. It's about actually building a business and building a brand. Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: 12:50

Oh wow, Thanks for going into that, because that is an area, like we said, many people struggle with, so I'm gonna push you a bit here when I know I know Lenora.

Speaker 2: 13:03

I'm not being serious, you know me.

Speaker 1: 13:06

I know Lenora so, and she's amazing. How was it when she was coaching you from your own perspective in terms of okay, I'm now moving from this being from me being a coach, because you see, the mindset of being a coach is really different from the mindset of being a business person how was that for you? What struggles did you come up against in terms of your thought process, and how did she help you navigate that? Or was it something you were able to navigate yourself? Mm-hmm?

Speaker 2: 13:44

well. I love that. Lenora really helped me, accountable, and she said do you want this business to be robust and continue and continue serving people? If that's the case, she was really good. She's like stop doing free one hour pre-calls, stop that, stop doing this or do this. And I just needed that guidance. It's like hiring I even use this analogy for myself. It's like hiring a personal trainer. You know that you're supposed to lift weights to get stronger and healthier and better and strengthen your core so you don't fall down right. So you hire a coach to get you to that point. And so I welcomed the guidance. I wanted that advice and I also and I think your question addresses this I also had to go to a place of discomfort because my generous spirit wanted to give a lot away for free and that was not sustainable and I had to come to terms with that.

Speaker 2: 14:57

And there's this kind of this moment where you're saying I really want to be nice, but it's not in service to me and it's not in service to my clients and it's not in service to people who work with me because they need my attention and I'm spending all this time doing this free work. I'm doing air quotes on that for all your listeners. It's just not serving me anymore. So I had to push myself to be I'm not saying less nice, but just getting more business-like in how I operate it. That is a pivot for sure, that's great.

Speaker 1: 15:33

That's great. And I love the fact that she asked you the question what do you want? What do you have? Do you want we had you see the business? And I think that is so important because that question almost like makes you dream or have a vision of what you really want.

Speaker 1: 15:53

And even when you know the struggle comes, or you know that you know I need to be nice. These people don't have a job. They, you know I need to help them, I need to give things away. It brings you back to what's the vision what do you want to do? I love that. So thanks so much for sharing that. So now the business is now growing and I want us to kind of go into you know what you've discovered over time, the struggles or challenges you know can give us a case study, examples of what, of how you've really helped people in terms of the job search, because surely now that so many people are, there's a lot, there's transition going on. So how has it been for you? Because I know your business has grown so much in the last couple of years as well. How did that happen?

Speaker 2: 16:47

And, yeah, Well, two things and thank you for asking that question. Two things my own struggles around being laid off after really devoting myself to many years at Microsoft and feeling really committed to it and waving the banner for a company and feeling really discouraged that they would not see me as an individual who had a value by staying at the company. There was a lot of hit to my ego, understandably, but the gift of that was that I really understand that experience in a very personal way. So it enhanced my coaching. It made me a better coach, because there's nothing that makes you a better practitioner than having been through something yourself. So when we do out placement work, which is where companies are letting go of some of their employees and as an act of generosity, even though they're letting someone go, they will pay for plum to do coaching for their employees, and we do it for some really amazing companies around the United States. And when I do an intake call with a prospective client who's been affected by a layoff, whether it be for out placement work or someone who's just found us via a search or a referral, I come from a place of. I feel you. I've been there. I knocked on my friend Michelle's door and cried on her doorstep and said I can't believe what this meant to be. But I also believe that here I am, on the other side of that journey and I can speak and hold up the message that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not next year, but there is that light.

Speaker 2: 18:46

So the struggle for me was really losing what I thought was my identity as a corporate person and moving into being an entrepreneur, which really pushed me in a new and different way. As far as the clients themselves and coaching people, I think what has been most valuable in all the work that I have done as a coach and I think my coaches on my team would agree with me that being witness to someone's pain and someone's frustration and someone's disappointment is part of the work in itself. You, as someone who manages, who works with people and coaches about what the brain does in terms of the way we perceive things and the way we react to things, can really appreciate that there's a process of sadness and disappointment and you have to be there and be there for that, to get them to the other side, to where they really finally can open themselves up to the idea that they have a value and our works show that value to the client and get them through to that other side. So, just talking about pain and transition, I think those two things my own transition informs my own coaching, not to jump ahead, but as far as being a business person.

Speaker 2: 20:21

What that really did for me, however, is really opened my eyes to thinking I'm a coach. I thought I was a coach, but what I really realized is that I'm a business development person. I love building brand and building business and creating opportunity for people on my team to do the work of coaching or HR work, and so I've pivoted yet again from not that I don't coach I still have a few coaching clients but I have pivoted more towards leaning into running the practice and growing it and coming up with business development strategy than almost anything else. So there's lots of light at the end of this tunnel.

Speaker 1: 21:10

Oh wow, I love that. I want to go back and then come forward. You touched on you losing your own identity when you were pivoting, when you were made redundant and you then became a business person. And identity is a big thing as well for people who lose their jobs or who are searching, especially if they've been searching for a long time or they've been told that they're going to be made redundant. How does plum coaching help them navigate through that? Because I know you've touched on the pain, but identity is a big one as well. So how does that play out and how do you work them through it? And you can give us an example how that then changed into somebody? Because you see, with the identity, it also impacts on confidence and that will impact on interview and all that. So, yeah, if you can just touch on that a bit, Well, I can only speak to my own coaching.

Speaker 2: 22:19

I think my coaches, if they were listening this, would say oh well, that's interesting that you do it that way, but I do it a different way, so I'm just going to speak for myself. The first thing I talk about is my own journey with clients, about how I Microsoft broke up with me and, by the way, I have a great relationship with Microsoft. I was the big I noticed. I was just at a big Microsoft alumni conference presented about LinkedIn, which is totally my jam. So I want to be very clear that you know Microsoft's my ex-boyfriend or my ex-partner, but we're on good terms.

Speaker 1: 22:57

So I first talked about how.

Speaker 2: 22:59

I'm a company. When they let someone go, it took me a while to realize that Microsoft was not my spouse, not my partner, not my bestie. Microsoft was a company and their intention is to make money and they have to run their practice and they run their business in the way that's going to optimize their return on investment and their return to their shareholders. So the first is recognizing my own experience and sharing that with them. It doesn't mean it always lands at that moment, because there is grief and there is, and I understand that. The other thing is I really drive home the point that in order to be considered a strong candidate, you have to show up as a solution to somebody's problem. And if you go into this work without regaining your confidence which we work on and I'll explain how without regaining your confidence, you just show up as another problem.

Speaker 1: 23:59

Exactly.

Speaker 2: 24:00

So the most important thing, the most important work that I want to work on with clients right away, is building their confidence. And usually when I say to the say, to the client sitting across from me or across from me on the screen, I say you've hired right, and most of them have. And I say, well, when you've hired, if someone comes in and they just seem depleted and sad and frustrated and are you going to hire them, is that the person you?

Speaker 1: 24:31

want to bring on to your team.

Speaker 2: 24:33

Right, and they usually go, of course not. So I say so our work together is to make sure you find out what makes Maureen such a great resource to somebody. So let's discover that together and we do a series of work exercises that get them to understand that there are. I'm using my fingers here to create a Venn diagram for your listeners not people who are watching, but a Venn diagram is in my mind that works for our coaching Is there? The job is one circle, the client is the other circle and the overlap is telling that story of where they add value. So they have to have a really buttoned up, clean, crisp, articulate story that tells the employer, the hiring manager, the recruiter, their friends, even where that overlap exists and what those experiences are.

Speaker 2: 25:30

So that's part of the work that we do.

Speaker 1: 25:33

That's powerful. That's really powerful.

Speaker 2: 25:36

I don't know what that's powerful, is changing someone's brain. Honestly, Maureen, but I'll go with it.

Speaker 1: 25:41

That's what you're doing. You're literally changing their brain. That's what you're doing, because they've come in, like you said, with that whole baggage and what you're doing is helping them rewire their brain to focus on themselves and the value that they bring. So that's it.

Speaker 2: 26:00

Oh, okay, well, I will take it. I'm ready to be a brain expert. Absolutely, I'll let you do that. I'm going to leave that firmly in your court.

Speaker 1: 26:09

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Speaker 2: 27:37

That's another interesting tipping point. When I was working with Lenora, my business coach as well as a personal coach that I had, what I realized is I really wanted to make sure that I was creating opportunities for the coaches that worked with me, and if the brand was Laura, laura, laura, people would only want to work with Laura, which would not necessarily serve me and was not effective. To scale my practice, I needed other people to do the work as well and, of course, I would make money off of that. I'm not being shy about that anymore and, by the way, I'm very transparent with my team about the delta between what I pay them and what I charge the client so that it never catches them off guard, and I think it's really empowering to own that message. But what I realized is that I did go away from Laura being the brand. I could be the evangelist for the brand. I could be the spokesperson for the brand, just like anyone who hires a spokesperson.

Speaker 2: 28:52

Nike has spokespeople lots of great athletes and almost every big company has them. But I wanted to pivot away from that and more towards plum as the brand, and plum also had multiple offerings. It had job search, coaching, career coaching, resume writing LinkedIn profiles and HR human resources for small to medium sized business. Well, I don't do all that work, so it didn't serve me to be the brand anymore, so I pivoted away from that and now, even when people email me and say, oh, I want to introduce you to my friend, you might eat some coaching my responses always thank you for entrusting your referrals to me slash plum. Because I may not be their coach, I may not be the resource that they, that they lean into or lean on when they're doing the work.

Speaker 2: 29:54

But I really had to get more focused on branding for plum and I made significant investments in plum as a brand. I want plum to outlive me. I'm not outlive me. I don't want to die really fast, I know, but it's good and, based on what I hear from the market here in Seattle and other parts of the country among other companies, people could care less than Laura Peppin runs plum. They just want to make sure plum exists.

Speaker 2: 30:29

So that is a sign of success that it's about plum and not about me and, by the way, that frees me up to just be Laura, exactly Maureen just to connect with other women through LA and IWF and other organizations that I belong to. That's great.

Speaker 1: 30:48

So, in terms of that transition, though, how was it Because I think this is where a lot of people struggle of letting go, shelly, when you start bringing people in how did you find it to actually stand back and let other people make some decisions that you would have made? Because, like you said, the way to scale is to do it, but doing it can be quite challenging for a lot of CEOs or business owners or founders, so how did you navigate that?

Speaker 2: 31:28

Well, I have to say I have an unfair advantage in that I was a recruiter for over 20 years I wanted to cover up that number but actually was closer to 25 years. So I had done so much hiring and so much discernment work around evaluating candidates that I was able, when I was bringing people on number one, I was able to dive deep into questions that would get me to the answers surrounding their commitment, their interests, etc. The other thing is I really trusted my gut, and I know that's not scientific, but I know it is.

Speaker 1: 32:16

Oh, it is.

Speaker 2: 32:16

Oh good, oh good. Well then see, I'm closer to being a brain expert than I thought.

Speaker 1: 32:21

I said it, you are.

Speaker 2: 32:25

Thank you Is that I knew so many people, having worked for Microsoft for so long. I had colleagues at Microsoft that I knew their work and when they approached me, it wasn't all Microsoft colleagues. By the way, there might be some people listening to this, go, wait a minute. She didn't ask me to join Plum. Well, I think my intuition was telling me this person will be great with clients. I would trust this person. They're a grownup and they're going to do the right thing. They're going to represent my brand. So I have people on the team that, even beyond Microsoft, there's a woman on my team, lynette, who I met through a dear friend of mine, who was the CEO of a company and Lynette was our head of HR and I met Lynette through. That was some contract work I had done with my friends company and I really liked Lynette and I said I think she absolutely would be an amazing addition to the team and I reached out to her and other people had referred people to me and I always went into those conversations going would I feel comfortable sending them in as my proxy?

Speaker 2: 33:41

Actually, one of my favorite stories is I subjected myself to a 16 weeks worth of 6am boot camp. Why did that. Now I look back on it and go, oh my gosh, but the universe was directing me towards Kelly, who was my boot camp instructor and she was amazing. She taught kickboxing. I felt so strong and so amazing as a woman able to take on the world, at least the punching bag. And I met Kelly and through 16 weeks I went. I know there's more to this woman than being a kickboxing coach.

Speaker 2: 34:20

I went out to coffee and she told me the story that she had worked for Nike, adidas, converse, amazon. She had been a sales leader, a business development person, and she was a coach not just kickboxing coach, but a coach coach. And I went oh my gosh, kelly, I need a career transition coach on my team. Would you be interested? So placing trust in people that you develop relationships with, as crazy as it may seem, a kickboxing coach or someone you met.

Speaker 2: 34:54

So I trusted my gut about that. I brought people on that I knew could do the work. But there are other people that were not my kickboxing coach or not people, I admit, in other ways and I felt that my discerning eye and the way that I connected with people would give me guidance. And so I would say to your listeners who are trying to decide whether they want to scale and add people, I would say could you envision this person as your proxy, maybe doing the work differently, but still showing up in a way that clients are going to email you and say thank you so much for connecting me with Maureen she's terrific. Or Kelly or Lynette or Holly or Deanna or Nicole all the people on my team or Lane, I got to throw in Lane, and Matt, I got to throw in.

Speaker 1: 35:48

Yeah, no, but that's fantastic, and I like the fact that you said they might do it differently, and that's the key they don't have to do it like you. It's accepting the fact that they might do it differently but still get the results that are needed. And have you had any disappointments or challenges with people you've brought in, and if you just give us an example of that and how that was resolved?

Speaker 2: 36:17

Well, I'm going to give you two examples, because one is heartbreak that is good and one is heartbreak that is not so good. So let me just assure all your listeners that you never get it 100% right. It just I mean, I'm in that, was a recruiter for 25 years. I still have made bad or I'm going to say decisions that did not serve me and for various reasons, people can leave or they're not the right fit, and you won't know that until they're in role in place, and that's just the reality of it.

Speaker 2: 36:54

So, you have to be ready for it and it may happen on your very first person. You bring on and that's okay. Don't get, don't don't be discouraged, keep trying. Exactly the first heartbreak is something that I think is is a positive, and that is for six years. I think it was six years. Andy was one of my resume writers and she worked with me and a situation and clients loved her and I love her and we're still connected and we're still friends and I, of course, wish her well. But after six years, situation changed and she needed to leave Plum, and I would be a hypocrite if I did not encourage people on my team to go pursue what is right for them, what's right for their family, what's right for them, what's right for their growth. So, with my well wishes, but sincere disappointment for missing out on her skills and talents and gifts. I wish her well and she left. So that happens and you have to be ready for that.

Speaker 1: 38:01

People need to spread their wings, for whatever reason.

Speaker 2: 38:03

So, andy, I still miss you, but I also wish you well, and you know I do, and she, by the way, has stepped up and interviewed candidates for me here at.

Speaker 2: 38:14

Plum because she is so she's so great about wanting Plum to be successful and for me to be successful. Social step up to support me. That's special. That's special Even today, On the not so good side, there have been situations where I have invested my time and my resources to bring someone on train them, and they really are not the right fit. I can feel that the client feels it. I won't name anybody because it's fair and not right and not human resources respectful. But from those experiences, as we should with all experiences, I've learned to do things better or get more buttoned up or be more discerning or ask the right questions, and so I'm always learning and while I may be disappointed in the moment, I do know that every act that happens in my life is a learning edge moment, and so I've learned from that. So no to your listeners. You will have your heart broken, you possibly will be disappointed, but that's just part of the growth.

Speaker 1: 39:35

Yeah, thank you for touching on that, because it's one I come across a lot. Oh, but I trained the staff and then they would leave, and I love the fact that you've shown how the key thing is that you're learning consistently. And yes, it's reality, they might leave, but surely if they live in good terms, like you described at the beginning, with Andy, where she's still part of the business in a way kind of an extension, but also the ones that don't really work out, it's okay, you learn from it, you learn from the experience and you move on. So, yeah, thank you so much for touching on that.

Speaker 2: 40:15

So, now we're coming. Oh yeah, I'm sorry, I was going to add one more thing, a learning edge moment. So one of the other things that I think is a really key thing when you own your own practice and I'm sure you're going to nod your head on video when I say this the first contract that I ever use to engage a client is not even remotely similar to the contract that I have today, because I learned from every mistake of people trying to get around things or missing something or how we engage with our clients. You go wait a minute. Oh my gosh, how did they find that loophole? So you fill that loophole on the next one and then another client finds another loophole. So I'm going to say to anyone going out there and starting their own practice just know that part of the business side of it is learning and changing your contract over time.

Speaker 1: 41:10

Yeah, yeah, thank you for that, and that's so true and I love it. I love the fact that you've really touched on this, because people just beat themselves up or end up feeling so bad, oh, I got it so wrong. I've done this, there's no need, it's happened. What do you learn from it? Learn and grow. That's the key. Oh, thank you, thanks so much for that. So, now that we're coming to the end of the podcast, can you tell us how listeners that want to know more about how Plom can help them? So the different aspects, because I know they are different arms of Plom If you can just touch on them so that people that want to reach out can go? Oh yeah, plom can help me. I need to speak to someone.

Speaker 2: 41:59

Well, let me just say that, as a business development person, that question is awesome because this gives me an opportunity to talk about how people can review what we do and what the different services are. So the easiest way to just look us over and check us out is just go to our website, which is plum, just like the fruit plumseattlecom.

Speaker 1: 42:27

And by the way Before you go on, okay, sorry, now I'm just going to say so why the name Plom?

Speaker 2: 42:34

Well, I don't know if this is true in other countries, but in the United States when you get a great job, it's called you get a plum job and that's a great visual right? I actually had some plums sitting on my kitchen counter right now, and when you see a plum it's like a happy fruit. It's happy, it's approachable, and don't we love that color? I mean, the color is just beautiful. And so in branding and approachability and all those things, I just thought that's really great and all you have to say is plum. Like even in Seattle, people go, oh, I use plum and people go, oh yeah, I know what plum is. And that makes me so happy because it's just one word, it's so easy.

Speaker 2: 43:20

You don't have to remember like laurapeppingcom, which is so terrifically difficult, so people can go to plumseattlecom and on it you'll see two really big areas. One is all things career, which would be career coaching, resume writing, LinkedIn profiles, job search coaching and out placement. Well, I don't know if that's under out placement, You'd think I'd know my own website, and so there's that button. And then the other one is all things human resources, all things HR, and the human resources side of our practice serves small to medium sized businesses up and down the US West Coast, including Alaska. So for those clients, for those people we're listening in in other countries, yes, we can do work in Canada, but we're probably not going to be a resource for doing work outside of Canada or the continental United States. But we have HR consultants.

Speaker 2: 44:20

If you go to plumseattlecom in the upper right hand corner it says about us and you'll see all the folks on my team and you'll see some of them are HR consultants. Only go to their LinkedIn profiles because they're so accomplished and I love showing them off. But you'll also see our coaches and resume writers there as well. So you can reach out to us via our website. Of course we have a connect with us or contact us button. They can connect that way and then we follow up with a menu of services which goes into greater detail about the work that we do. But the thing that I cannot give up, I just refuse, can't stop, won't stop, Because every prospective client gets a free 20 minute call with me. Sorry, Lenora, it's true I still do our free call, but it's 20 minutes, that's good.

Speaker 1: 45:13

And that's the personal touches in it. I love that. I like that yeah.

Speaker 2: 45:18

Well, again, when you've lost your job or you're looking for a job or you're in that state of flux. You really want a human being, and so, while we are learning how to use chat GPT in other ways, I promise you chat GPT does not do our resumes, but we do play with that. Chat GPT will never replace the one on one personal experience that we provide when someone calls us.

Speaker 1: 45:47

Yeah, that's true and that's powerful. I think that's really good and, like you said, it's not an hours 20 minutes and yeah, I'm just relating. When people can see where you are, the fact that you've actually been, you know, you know what they're going through because you've been there it makes so much different. So I think that's nice.

Speaker 2: 46:10

That's good. Well, it does yeah.

Speaker 1: 46:12

Yeah, and what about LinkedIn? What do you do with LinkedIn?

Speaker 2: 46:16

Yes, you asked me about that. So LinkedIn, because I used it as a recruiter. I have a Many recruiters out there not that they're going to be listening necessarily to a podcast like this, but if they'll, they'll probably say yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a total LinkedIn jockey. I know how to use LinkedIn Well, because we know how recruiters and hiring managers use LinkedIn. We share that knowledge with our clients, and LinkedIn workshops are something that I do I have consistently done over the last 13 years as Not only a way to share that expertise in a broader way, but it's also a business development tool, because if you can see that I know what I'm doing when it comes to LinkedIn and how to create a really strong LinkedIn profile, they're gonna go oh yeah, she does know what she's doing.

Speaker 2: 47:07

Or her coaches or resume writers, who also do LinkedIn profiles, will know as well. So LinkedIn what's really important about LinkedIn for your clients is, or for your listeners, is that we really understand who you are and what you do in Approximately six seconds or less, and so our work is showing you how to make a LinkedIn profile stand out in those six seconds, because that's about all the eyeball time that's true. A Recruiter or hiring manager gives it when there's, when there's going through. If you're, if you're watching us on this video you don't see me swiping. I, like I mentioned I've been married for 30 years.

Speaker 2: 47:50

I don't really know swiping, but I can't tell you from a recruiting standpoint, not a dating standpoint, that recruiters and hiring managers swipe very quickly.

Speaker 1: 48:00

Yeah, yeah, and they make you know the impression they did so fast. You know they look at it, they make their or they have an impression of you so quickly, so true, so true. Thank you so much. I'm going to put all the details in the description so you can click on them Wherever you listen to this podcast and you can get in touch with Um plum coaching. It would be so good. You know it's been a. It's been a huge pleasure having you on the podcast, Laura. How large is your team now? I know you did say it at the beginning how large is it 19, 19 people?

Speaker 2: 48:39

We fluctuate between 20 and probably 18, depending on whether my heart is broken or not broken, and so, and uh, yeah, I just um, I think 20 is as big as we will ever get, because I love knowing people on my team, loving the names of their kids or what their favorite foods are, or I like getting them to know one another, and I feel 20 is about all my brain Maureen can handle. Thank you so much for giving me this opportunity to spend this time with you, number one, because I just adore you. And number two.

Speaker 2: 49:20

I am a listener. And, uh, finally, because I am a business woman and this is a great opportunity to share my story.

Speaker 1: 49:27

Yeah, I know it's been. It's fantastic having you, and it's been something I've been Saying I've got to do, so I'm so pleased with doing it. It's been a huge pleasure having you on. So before we leave, though, can you give our listeners a final word of advice, mainly to people, actually to two groups of people to entrepreneurs, but also to those who are searching for work at the moment?

Speaker 2: 49:55

To entrepreneurs. I have um Two bits of advice. I know you said one, but I'll just give two. Number one is I call myself the human bumper car. I try things out. If it doesn't work, I pull back and I go again. And I pull back and I go forward. And you can't take it personally. I there are many things that I've tried at plum that just didn't work and it's. I just can't let it affect my ego. I just try and do something else.

Speaker 2: 50:25

So just know that as an entrepreneur, you're going to try a bunch of stuff. It may not work. Keep trying, but Don't dig in so hard that you think the market just doesn't understand you. The market understands you. If they want it, they will respond to it. So that's the first bit of advice to entrepreneurs. The second bit is listen. Listen a lot. Listen to your customers, listen to people you're that you're getting inputs from. Really take it to heart, because I can't tell you how many times People with a firm will contact me and go I'm going to be a resource to you, I'm going to partner with you, I'm going to help you. I'm like how can you do that when you don't even know anything about me? Why don't you listen to me? First have great questions and then build your message from listening. So that's two pieces of advice to entrepreneurs, the. The last piece of advice would be to job search and People who are on the job search, and that is remember that Just what marine is talking about your confidence and building your confidence.

Speaker 2: 51:36

It may be from Learning how to run a marathon during the time of your search. It may be discovering the skills, gifts and competencies you can bring to a job. It may be, um, tackling something you've never done before, which I did when I was unemployed I took up archery. That was a big thing. So, um, yeah, I need to get my bow back in action. But Whatever it might be, to build your confidence, that is really the hardest hurdle to tackle. And whatever you can do, whether it be working with marine, whether it be working with a plum Uh, firm like plum building that confidence is really key to showing up as a candidate of choice, and all the other stuff can be taught, but building the confidence is really key and critical to doing this work.

Speaker 1: 52:29

Rosh Lara. That's, that's really powerful. I like what you said. Building your confidence that's, and the examples you gave is not even Doing it in the area that you're looking to work, is doing something else, and that's really that's great. That's great because that's the easier way to build the confidence by doing something different. You know, do something you've not done before and your brain then goes Actually I can't do this. If I can do this, then I can do. I can really get back into getting that job. I love that. That's so good, thank you.

Speaker 2: 53:09

You know a bit more about how the brain is going to respond than I do, but I, I, I think it's working and I will tell you, as someone who does archery, that there's nothing more confidence building than getting a bullseye, and then it has nothing to do with my job Exactly.

Speaker 1: 53:26

Yeah, no, that's great, that's a good example I wish you all bullseyes.

Speaker 2: 53:30

I wish everyone listened to that Exactly. Go on bullseye.

Speaker 1: 53:34

Oh, wow, that's, that's, that's great. And then for the entrepreneurs, you said don't take it personally and listen, and both fantastic advice, don't take it personally is so good. Listening is, yeah, you know, that is just amazing. Laura, you are a superstar, you are amazing. I remember, um, when I met you this was going back a few years now and because I've been posting and you said to me, more in what you're asked, what are you asking for? And I had to step back and then go oh, actually, it's true I'm posting but not really asking for anything, and you pointed it out to me. And you know, I just love you so much, you, you know you, the advice you give, you're just so open to giving and you care so much. I love you, love you, love you loads. Honestly, I really do, and I'm so pleased I got to meet you, but I can't wait to you know, I can't wait to see you get a.

Speaker 2: 54:37

Laura hog, you know I cannot wait where, whether it's whether it's, I actually would rather come your way than you come my way. But you are over in Seattle, always, always, always. And thank you to your listeners for making it through what is hopefully valuable to you. And also being a fan of Marines, because I'm a fan of Marines and I want you to, I want to join your club of being a fan out there in the universe.

Speaker 1: 55:06

Thank you so much. Thank you so much, laura. It's been great having you on. Thank you once again. You're welcome.