SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey there, Maureen Chana here, founder of the Mindsites Academy, neurocoach to executives, leaders, entrepreneurs, and a neuroleadership trainer using insights from neuroscience to help you deliver results by learning to work smarter, be in control of your brain, manage yours and others' emotions, change behaviors, flourish and exceed expectations. Welcome back to another episode of Lead2 Excel Podcast. I am so thrilled to be with you today because we have a special guest. But before we get into that, remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to it. Because it will help other people find it and give them the opportunity to understand how they can rewire their own brain to enable them to achieve their goals. So without wasting any more time, grab your cup of coffee or your drink or whatever that might be, put your feet up and listen in. Today I am excited to have a really interesting guest with us. And you will see why I say interesting in a few minutes because she does something that I am so passionate about. So, Avil Beckford, welcome to Lead2Xcel podcast. I'm so excited to have you on this podcast and just looking forward to going into a conversation together.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Thank you so much, Maureen, for having me here.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

So, Avil, I'm just going to um read your profile out because it's it's really interesting. Then I think after reading it, then I'll come back to start asking you questions. And my first question is why? So Avil is an expert interviewer, skilled writer, published author. Avil's the founder of the Invisible Mentor. Now, she's an avid reader herself and she understands the benefits of reading every day. She created a system to train senior level professionals on how to read so that they learn what they need to know from books that they read. She also has a membership site, which is known as the Art of Learning Leadership Academy. And I'm going to leave all her details in the description below. So please do go have a look at it on her website. So, Avil, you are an avid reader, you're an expert interviewer, and you're the founder of the Invisible Mentor. What is the Invisible Mentor?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

It's so interesting because years ago, I think it was in 2007, I was walking in High Park. And at the time I had just published my first book, Tales of People Who Get It. And I remember as I was walking in this park, it's the equivalent of Central Park, but it's not as big. It's here in Toronto. So I had interviewed over 34 people, and this thought came into my mouth, you know, just running through some of those interviews, that the people I had interviewed could be my board of invisible mentors. So that popped into my head because the interviews were so different. So I came back and I researched it, and there is a professor somewhere in the US. She had used that concept. So I read a bunch of her stuff, and what I figured out, the context that she was using in, it was a way, so an invisible mentor is a leader you can observe from a distance. So as they're thinking, so you know, I mentioned it talked to a friend, and she said this idea is ahead of his time. So I waited 18 months before I did anything. And in 2009, I created my blog, and that's what I called it, till eventually I started calling my company that because it makes so much sense, right? I have so much information on my website. I have so many people I have interviewed that also have my podcast interviews. So people can use the information there to mentor themselves. So for instance, you could be my invisible mentor. I don't need your permission. All I'll do look at your podcast, read any books you have written, look at your training program, and the information that you have put out there, I can use it to mentor myself. So that's the notion of the invisible mentor.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

I love that. I love that because in a sense, we do it without thinking about it. But but also I think the fact that you've given it a name also enables people to go, actually, yes, I might not have a physical mentor, but you know what? I'm going to get myself invisible mentors and then actually actively seeking out those things that they need, whether it's podcast or reading or whatever. I love that. I love that idea. I love that. Right, let's talk about you and how you got to doing what you do now, which is, and I think one of the things you do that I love so much is really talking about the importance of reading or reading habits, but actually how to read more effectively, if I've coined, if I've actually said that properly, but you would correct me. Before we go into the reading, how did you, you know, tell us a bit of your background and how you got to get it, you know, how you got to the point of really being interested in teaching people how to read.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

Okay, so I've always been a reader. I cannot remember a time when I was reading. And I think your listeners would get a kick out of this. When I was in high school, and high school in Jamaica is a little bit different from the way they do it in um in North America. So high school is from grade seven up until grade 30. And I remember that when I got my allowance, we call it Pocket Money in Jamaica, every Wednesday I know that the truck would come in with the magazines and stuff. And I would be waiting patiently until they got to know me, right? And I would wait for those magazines. You know, everything wasn't instant like now. So the magazines, some of them came from the UK, they were three months old, but I didn't care. They were new to me. So I just wanted to, so reading has always been a part of my life. So what I do came out of a sad event. So what happened is that my mom died unexpectedly from a heart attack, and this was in 2012. So in early 2013, I decided that I was gonna create a reading challenge for myself because I needed to do something that I loved to heal my broken heart. So I was doing a challenge to read the world. So someone who goes to my church, like she has traveled a lot. What does that mean to read the world? Okay, so I was gonna read books by authors from around the world. So I thought I'd visit countries, different countries, via the books I read. I wasn't traveling there physically. This is all like a virtual thing. So I mapped out, you know, where I was going. So at the end, I think it was in four months, I read eight books, and I think I had visited around 30 countries. 30, 30, yes. Wow. So one of the things that became very, and I read all kinds of books. And if someone wants to learn from this is a teaching moment, if you are gonna embark on such a project, it's very life fulfilling, but give more thought to the sequence in which you're you read the books and vary the level of difficulty. Sometimes I was on the floor crying because the contents of the books were just so tough. So if I were to do it again, I'd do like a book with heavy information, maybe something laugh, you know, that makes you laugh and stuff. So I wouldn't do it exactly the way I did it. But looking, looking back, when I was reflecting, one of the things I noticed was so much repetition in the nonfiction books. And at the time I kept on saying to myself, have I not read this before? Have I not read this before? So I thought to myself, there has to be a better way. So I started doing research and came upon you know a few things. And in the end, it's important. Oh, you love the statistic. Like about, I think three years ago, I read this man did a study, and I read that only four to eleven percent of the text on a page carries meaning. Okay, four to eleven percent on the average page of a nonfiction book carries meaning. That's roughly one sentence. The rest of the information is context or examples. Now I always ask people who I train, how much context do you need? How many examples do you need? The other staggering thing is that if you go into a bookstore and you're in a special section, you notice that most of the books on average are roughly the same size. They have the same page number. That's because traditional publishers have workouts. Recently, I talked to someone and she submitted her manuscript and it was 40,000 words. She thought she was finished. The publisher said they wanted 60,000 words. Oh, wow. So they settled, you know, 50. But she thought the book was done at 40. So this is some of the things that publishers do. You have to meet a word count. So also authors add in extra information to get to that word count. So back to the story. So I'm there thinking, haven't I read this before? Haven't I read this before? And one of the things I learned to do is that before you read any book, fiction or nonfiction, make sure that you have a purpose for reading the book. If it's fiction, you have your purpose. Craft the questions that you want the book to answer. So then you start. It's the whole concept that is all part of preview in the book. So, what does that mean? You're gonna read the foreword, the preface, the introduction, the tape of content is the most important section because it's like the skeleton of the book, it holds it together, but it tells you the different parts of the book. You also want to look at the index, and that surprises people. Why? Because the keywords and phrases with the most page references tells you what's important to the author. So then questions may emerge for you to add to your list. Also, when you're previewing the table of contents, you're looking at chapters and sections that potentially will answer the questions that you have. So when you start to read the book, you're only gonna focus on those sections. Now, I want to make this very clear so that people can understand. This is what I like to call just in time reading. Maybe later on, you have to go to that book again for some other reason, and at that point, other sections will be important to you. So you're reading to learn what you need to know at that instant.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

That is something, you know, because I'm listening to you and I'm thinking, and I've had people ask me so much because I love reading. I have, and I've been reading since I can remember, and I just love it. And something, so someone, well, a few people have said to me, have you finished? Have you read all these books? And then I'm going, yes. And they go, all of it from the front page to the end, and I'm going, no. And and that's literally what you're saying, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 15:25

Exactly. We all have to change our definition of what it means to read. If you went through the book and you got what you needed, you've read the book. Okay? It's a waste of time to be reading a book from front to back, every word. And in these days, I think a problem is form of fear of missing out. People think if they skip certain sections, they might miss important information.

SPEAKER_00 16:00

That's that's so true. Fast as you were going through what we needed, the with areas we needed to focus on, that's exactly what came to me, that fear of missing out. That I think people feel that if I don't read the book, I would have missed out on something. But there's a key thing you said, and I think that is the one big thing that I'm taking away, and I hope listeners are taking away. Is when you, before you read a book, ask yourself the purpose of reading that book. I think that's so important because once we establish what that purpose is, then we can then do what you've asked us to do in terms of looking at the forward, the table of contents to find out the chapters or places where that information is. So that is so powerful. I want to take us back to hold one second, there's something else I need to add.

SPEAKER_01 16:58

So, one of the things, and most people don't do this because they don't know, is that you need to prepare your mind to read the book so that you can absorb the information. So, where you can do that is to do some jump in jacks. When you do jump in jacks, it connects both sides of the brain. So it's whole brain thinking. And you, with your background in neuroscience, this will be important to you. So, and you can do marching band, just think of any exercise where you're using different sides of the body to connect, so that's important. You can also you listen to Bandora Beats Audio, that also does it for you. Or you can go into a deep meditative state first so that you're into alpha before you start to read.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

I love that. Prepare your mind, and that is so powerful. In fact, what you've said about preparing the mind is so it's, you know, I love that. But yes, as you said it, I went, actually, yes, that is so key. Because once you do these exercises to prepare your mind, what you're doing is it you make your brain expectant. And because you've decided as well on the reason why, or you've asked, or you've asked yourself the question and you've come up with the reason why, as you're preparing your mind, then it becomes more open to receiving the information and it connects. The information you're reading connects with the previous information you've had in memory, and that is what will enable us to remember. Oh, I love that. That is that is something I'm glad you say that because that is so important.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

Because when you're reading new information, like I automatically connect in with what I've read before. And then the other piece I also wanted to say is that some people read books and do nothing with the information. You have to apply the information. And one of the ways to do that, I always say, so you have read the book, right? Whatever form you read it and you have your information. Make sure you're taking notes as you read so that when you're finished, go through your notes and start picking out the big ideas. If there is some sort of technique or model, pay attention to that. So when you're reading books, right? And you want to become knowledgeable on a topic, you can't read just one book. Okay, you want multiple perspectives and diverse points of view. So I usually say read three to five books. I prefer to do five, but we'll settle for three. So imagine you have picked out the big ideas and the models from each of those nonfiction books. A good way to do something that most people do not do is to connect the ideas across books so you come up with a better idea. If you're looking at the models, right, you may come up with something that's unique for your business because you're consolidating information.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

So I wanted, I wanted to say that. That is something, that is something. You see, because a lot of times people just read one book or get one information, and then that's it. But the true learning, and I love the way you've you you actually explained this, is consolidating information. So taking information from different places and coming up with the new concept or really a deeper understanding of that information. And that really is what would help us remember what we've led. But you know, the whole aspect of reading and doing something with it is so it's it's it's it's interesting. We have to remind people to do that because a lot of times people read books and that's it, it's done. I've read it, it's done. You don't do anything with the information, you don't even review the information and you don't take notes. I have an analogy I like to use.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

So I'll say to people that reading a book and not applying the idea is like spending all day in the kitchen cooking a five-course meal and not eating it.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

Oh, whoa, oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I wow, that is true. Just spending a whole day cooking a five-course meal and not eating it. Yeah, yeah, that is true. Wow, I like that. I'm gonna use that as well. That is so good, right? Okay, still on this thing of books. Why do people need to read, especially professionals, and I would say especially leaders, because that's an area of interest to me. Why do leaders need to read?

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Okay, so a big thing is to get ideas, okay? You when you read a book, you can even get ideas to solve, you know, an old problem. So I want to say something. In the in one of the books that I read about a technique for producing ideas. So the first step is gathering information. And in the gathering state, you have general information and specific information. So specific information is the kind of information you need to solve the problem. The general information is information you collect your whole life. This is significant because it's expanding your knowledge base so that when you have problems to solve, you're going to use specific information, but you also have a pool of general information. So reading books, you may be reading for a reason. You may feel like reading something because a friend told you to read it. And it's a good book, but maybe you have no application for it. But it has very good and sound ideas. So that would go into your general pool of information. So have some place where you're storing that information. So reading, so the more you read, it's the more ideas you're gonna have to draw on when you have to solve problems.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

I like that. And thanks for sharing that because a lot of time, a lot of people don't like reading, you know, or shy away from reading. And what you said is so true. In this age that we're in, we need a lot of information, we need ideas, we need to be able to be creative, we need to be able to think fast. And the only way we can come up with these ideas, these insights of even able to solve problems is really tapping into what we've put in our memory, what we've connected with. And that, you know, one big aspect of that is reading. And reading is so important because we've, you know, I talk a lot about the brain, but actual reading is helping our neurons, the brain cells, to keep working and firing, and that keeps our brain active as well. So reading is just so important for us. Thanks so much for sharing. And you know something?

SPEAKER_01 24:59

The ideas can help you to build your brand because you have such unique information so that you know you can be seen as an expert. And when I teach people leadership reading, because they're not reading the entire book, they can read a lot more.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And they can go deeper in terms of what they are learning because they're reading different, um, different books. I've got two two things. One question is when you started reading after your mom passed away, um, were you reading more fiction or non-fiction or a combination of both?

SPEAKER_01 25:42

It it was a combination of both. And it was interesting because, you know, when I was going through that thing, like I love murder mysteries because one of the things I say to people, it's important to read murder mysteries and detective stories because they help you to hone your problem-solving skills. Who done it? Right? You need to foreshadow on all that stuff. So I I always say that, say that to them. So I was I was reading both, but it also gave me an opportunity. I read quite a few children's books because well-written children's books can teach you about life, like watership down. That's an excellent book to teach you about leadership. It's about the watership down. The author, I think he died maybe a couple years ago. I think he died in his 90s. Um, he's a he's from the the UK, and it's um the story, it shows Hazel as the unlikely leader. So it it teaches you that leaders are made and not born. They say the book is for kids, 9 to 12. I'm not convinced, based on the what the content of the book, but it's still classified as a children's book. So a lot of um fiction, the really good writers, when the characters are well formed, look at the things they do in their day. Sometimes you learn about a process just from observing how the character lives his or her life. Yeah. So most people don't read that way. So it's okay to read fiction and look for the lessons there. So I read, I read both. Going through that Read the World was an opportunity for me to read some of those children's books that I didn't have access to growing up in Jamaica. So I had a really good time, you know, reading some of those books. Yeah. So I came to the books at a later stage, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:53

So how did it help you then? How did reading actually help you go through the grief that you were experiencing?

SPEAKER_01 28:03

Okay, so I was doing one thing, something that I love, so that was helpful. And I'm just learning, I learned so much. Like you're reading this book, and sometimes you see a bit of yourself inside the book. Like, you know, there was one book, the deal breaker, and it was set in 80. And there was this one thing that resonated with me because of something I heard. So my mom died before she could get into the car for her friend to take her to the hospital. Wow. And things moved slowly in Jamaica. They were waiting hours before they came to get my mom. So her friends were keeping her company. In the deal breaker, there was one scene where someone had died, and she was in the casket. I hope this is not orbit for your listeners. No, so she was in, she was forced to be.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

In fact, I'm thinking, sorry, I'm just gonna say I'm I'm it's so useful, and I know somebody that listens to this podcast, someone I know would really benefit from this. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

Okay, so there's one scene, and she's in there's this person in the bedroom, and she's sitting by the casket with the dead person, just waiting. And when I read that, I started bawling, I started bawling, not even crying, I was bawling because of what the people had said to me. And they were toasting my mom because she had cooked before she passed away that same day, and they went into the fridge and they had this thing at sorrel or something, and they were told, they said, Eileen fed us in life and she's feeding us in death. Oh wow, and just you know, just uh comparing what I heard, you know, about how things happened and what I was reading in this book, it just hit up. Oh my god, and I was crying, I just couldn't stop. So there was there were those things, but the other thing that happened, which was unexpected, but I should have thought of it, is that I became very aware of intercultural relationships, intercultural awareness. Wow, well, it's just the different cultures are very different from your own. Like one book, and there's some really deep source, one book, the coroner's lunch. So, in it, this guy, he's a doctor, he was a mediot doctor, he wasn't good at his studies, but this was in his older years now. They gave him a job hoping that he was he would fail, and he was like the cheap coroner. So just imagine this. This man is using a manual. Oh wow, really, really old to do his job to figure out how to do an autopsy, and he just thought to himself, you know, and thinking he's not gonna let them win. And just think, you know, someone being very resolute. Do you know that he was able to do it? Because he was determined, so he they put him in a job that he was unqualified for, yeah. But he learned the job and showed them that it could break him. Now that's a profound lesson. Yes, and I experienced tons of lessons like this when reading all those books. I love that book, the second was in Laos. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:53

You see, what you said is so important, and it brings us back to what we talked about before. You know, you read and then you do something with it, you put it into practice. Let it not just be a story about a 90-year-old man who was unqualified, but really reflecting and thinking about our own situation. How can I use this to really make myself better or achieve what I want to? It's really putting it into practice and drawing out those lessons, like you said, writing it down or doing something, you know, but just making it alive and making it useful. I love that. I love that. So you talked a lot about your uh your program, how you help people in terms of reading. Can you tell us how how you do that? What is the what what's how what do you do? How do you actually help people read better and use this in their roles?

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yes, so I have some programs on my website, the Invisible Mentor, not the art of learning. And uh when uh when I do the training program, the first, so it's very intense. Like sometimes they're reading like a book every three days, but they're doing leadership reading, they're reading strategically and not sequentially. So the first meeting would be me training them, you know, going through the steps and how to do it. Then they have the information they need to go and start reading the book. Then there would be a few roundtable discussions so that people can practice what they have learned. And it's interesting, you know, with the conversations that people have. We all get different things from the books we read. So when you hear about what other people got, it's expanding your knowledge because there are things that you may not have thought of.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

Yeah, that is so true. And that is similar to what I, you know, come when we talk, when we talk to people or communicate, what you say is landing on a different brain. So they would probably hear it differently. So we need to really be able to explain what we say to people. So it's similar in reading, and I think this is why it becomes really important. So I think you do, you do you still run a book club?

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Well, people call it a book club, it's not really a book club, but now I'm thinking to turn the whole training into a book club because that's that's how people do it. So I have to revamp a few things, but that's the way that I'm thinking. And a little nugget, like what I say to people, you know, especially the busy executives, that before you actually read a book, find a very good book summary to read. What that does, it gives you a place to hang the information when you start reading it. It's like the helicopter view, so you understand it better when you actually start reading it.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's that's that. I'm gonna do that actually. I'm going to do that. That's a that's good advice. So, in terms of what you do, really working with people, you know, I think that pulling together and discussing what you learned from it, I think that is so that is so powerful. So, how can people that want to work with you or people that want to learn how to be better at reading, how can they reach you? And, you know, what happens? Are you running, how does the program work? Is it a three-month program? Is it four? How does it work? Okay, so here's what I want to do.

SPEAKER_01 35:52

The the first, when we we did it before, like anyone could join. But what I I think what would be better is if I went into a company and uh you know train their leaders. Because with all the changing taking place, these people need to get a pool of ideas that they can combine to come up with better ideas to you know come up with some sort of plan as to how they navigate what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 36:27

I love that. So it's really going into companies to work with them. Okay, that's yeah, go on. So that's ideally what I would want.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

But if someone came to me, like, you know, say 10 friends and they wanted to learn this thing because it can help their career, I would be open to doing that as well. Okay, perfect. Okay, that's so people, yeah. So people can contact me through my website or they can reach out to me on LinkedIn, message me. Yeah. Um I'm an easy person, you know, to find. So if you notice up there, the invisible mentor.com. Yes, it's just an invisible mentor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Yeah. And what's the art of learning leadership academy?

SPEAKER_01 37:15

So that is just another site where I have my membership site. So I have what is called bookish notes. So a bookish note has a summary of the book. It has this quest discussion question. And a lot of time, because part of my training with other stuff, when I say you have to read more than one book, it has books that you can read to expand your knowledge on that topic. It has a section called Avil's Musing, and that's where my experience comes into play. So it has a summary, it has the insights takeaway, and it has a lot more than that. So some people don't think they don't have to read. So at the very least, if they were to read that, they would get a good basis. But the interesting thing is that what I do on the membership side, based on a theme, I group the bookish notes together to form a course. So if you wanted to learn time management, you'd have access to at least 10 different books. 10 different authors with multiple points of view and diverse perspectives.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

And will you then help or teach them how to um focus on the different on the specific aspects in each of those books? Or you know, I think my question is, will you then teach them how to read those 10 books to get exactly what they want? Is that is that what it's about?

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Is that how it's it's it's not reading the book, it's reading like a summary of the book, okay? And you're reading several summaries, so the authors are coming from the information from different perspectives, so you learn to build a more solid understanding of the topic.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Okay, okay. Oh, that's that's that's great. That is so good. Oh gosh, Avil, I could go on and on talking about reading and how to read, but I'm so grateful because you've given us quite a lot to think about and to really change the way people view reading. Um, I, you know, there's just so much you've you've really given us, and I'm so grateful. And uh I'm going to leave your details in the description for anyone that wants to contact you or reach out to you, or you know, on your website to go there and really find out a lot more as well. So, can you give us one final word of wisdom to fit uh to end this podcast, please?

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Okay, so it's just like to expand on the bookish notes. So some people are not gonna read books, no matter what you tell them, they want to read the book summary. So this advice is targeted to those people, okay? So don't just read one book summary. So let's say the book is The Psychology of Selling by Brian Tracy. Look for three to five summaries of those books, of that book, of that. Yeah, because the summarizer, each summarizer is gonna come to the topic differently. That's right. There'll be different focus in each summary. So I wanted to say that, and other people can use it, right? Yeah, you wanna get the helicopter view before you read the book, yeah. You can also read three to five summaries so that you have a good understanding. And when you read the summary first, a good summary, you go through the book a lot faster because you already know a lot about the book.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Exactly. Yeah, that's true, that's true. And I think, you know, thanks so much for that. One of the, you know, what you said about really reading different books on a topic uh kind of reassured me because I oh I actually thought when I was growing up that I won't, I knew it was clever, but I kind of felt I needed to put in more effort. Because what I did is that if I just read one book or a topic from one book, it I it I didn't understand it that well. I got the information, but I won't say I knew it well enough. So at a even from a young age, I formed the habit of reading at least three books, three different books on a topic. You know, so if I'm reading, if I was preparing from my exams and I was reading something on action potential, I would literally look for three different books to do that. And I trained my kids to do the same. And for me, it was just once I did that, I got those perspectives and it helped me understand it better. Now I understand that you know what goes on in the brain that enables that happen. But you touching on it again today is a great reassurance, and I just want to really encourage everyone to do it because it really helps you get a deeper, more solid understanding of whatever that is, and you get more ideas, and for a leader, that is just so powerful. So thank you so much, Avil, for all this. For you know, you've give you really have challenged us to go and read, but read better, read more effectively. So, thank you once again for coming on to Lead to Excel Podcast. Thank you so much for having me, Laura. Okay, three things before we finish today. Have you subscribed to this podcast? If you haven't, make sure you click that subscribe button wherever you listen to this podcast. Because once you subscribe, you will not miss an episode. And as usual, if you have a topic you would love me to speak about or bring a guest on, do let me know by leaving a review. Finally, do have a fantastic week and remember that you are limitless. So I look forward to seeing you in our next episode. Bye for now.