SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hey there, Maureen Cherna here, founder of the Mindsight Academy, neurocoach to executives, leaders, entrepreneurs, and a neuroleadership trainer using insights from neuroscience to help you deliver results by learning to work smarter, be in control of your brain, manage yours and others' emotions, change behaviors, flourish, and exceed expectations. Welcome back to another episode of Lead to Excel Podcast. I am so thrilled to be with you today because we have a special guest. But before we get into that, remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to it, because it will help other people find it and give them the opportunity to understand how they can rewire their own brain to enable them to achieve their goals. So without wasting any more time, grab your cup of coffee or your drink or whatever that might be, put your feet up and listen in. So I am absolutely excited today. I have got a lady who has actually become a friend, even though we've never met face to face, but we will soon. And um, I am just so pleased to welcome to our podcast this week, Suzanne Iwela. Now, Susan is a reimaginative partner. She collaborates with executives and teams for growth. Through her engagement as a coach, a consultant, a third partner, and facilitator, Susan's clients enhance their leadership, maximize talent, amplify their communication skills, and build a better connection with others. Susan, welcome to Lead to Excel Podcast. It's so great to have you here with us today.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Thank you, Maureen. Such a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

So let's get into this podcast that I'm so excited about. Now, one of the things you work as a coach and you work, in fact, what I'm going to do is I'll let you actually introduce yourself. I know I've introduced you, but kind of tell us what your main role is because I know you do quite a few things. So kind of tell the listeners exactly what Susan does.

unknown 2:27

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

So the name of my company is Weller Collaboration, which I founded about three years ago. And it was something that I started as a side hustle. So as something I was doing with work as I was going through my regular work and just expanding and growing on my own, because as I say, you know, I am a reimagination partner, and it's really also about reimagining myself at the same time, in addition to other clients. So about spring of 2020 is when I decided to really do the work full-time and go out on my own, which was quite a gift. I mean, even though it was a very challenge at the time of COVID and the pandemic happening, it would I say it was a gift because it's really been a time for people to reshuffle their decks. They've really been looking more internally, doing more self-um-reflection and really realizing where am I in my life, in my career, what do I really want to be doing in my future? And how do I lead? I mean, a big part of my work is really through leadership. So in my engagements as a coach and a consultant, I really work with clients to make sure that they are increasing their self-awareness. So really looking inside, being aware of how are they showing up on a day-to-day basis professionally and also sometimes personally, because you know, this is coaching, especially as whole person, because it's not like you actually, you know, check your personal life at home when you when you come to work every day and when you actually engage in your professional environment. So I am working with people to really have that self-awareness and to realize what their values are, what's truly meaningful to them, and how do they bring that to themselves professionally, their organization, their team, and really, you know, be themselves at the same time that they're able to further the objectives of the organization. And it's through through coaching and also through consulting work with change management and otherwise, I do a lot of business transformations with project with clients as well. So there's a good dose of change management in there. It's really about making sure that I am that partner with them. You know, I go along that path, whether it's a specific change project or whether it's their own change project, if they are really looking inside themselves and saying, you know, especially with last year, leading through crisis is a challenge for everybody when you're dealing with uncertainty and volatility, which is now happening more frequently. So we all have to be in this uncertain world and have that resilience and be prepared for what's coming next. A lot of my work is partnering with clients to have an idea of where are they now, where do they want to be with themselves and the organization and help to lead the way? So, what will that potentially look like and how can I support them in getting there?

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Wow. Wow, wow, that's a lot you're doing. That is amazing. And I want kind, I want us to go back a bit because you said that you started doing this as a side hustle. How many years did you do it as a side hustle for before you launched out on your own last year? Two years. That's good. So, what made you actually do it? You know, because you launched basically in the middle of a pandemic. What was going through your brain at that time? And what gave you the courage, the confidence, or mindset, or whatever to actually say, you know what, I'm going to do this now? Because most a lot of people were actually holding on to what they had at the time. So, what made you take that leap then?

SPEAKER_01 6:05

I actually go back about four years in my life to where I was, I was working in in corporate America. I had a wonderful, what, 21-year stint in the content licensing industry where I held a number of different roles. And I was traveling all over the world doing training and facilitation and change management work, which was wonderful, but also somewhat exhausting at the same time. And I had done this large transformation project, came home, and my husband said to me, like, okay, you know, I mean, you know the spinal tap reference, you know, you're going to 11. He's like, okay, you've been at 11 for the past nine months. Maybe now you're at nine. Is nine the new normal, or are you going to go back to seven at some point? And that was really an aha moment for me because it made me realize I don't want to be at nine or eleven all the time because I was getting to, you know, I was in my what, mid-late 40s, and it was about a matter of I want to enjoy my life. I want to enjoy my work and be present for my husband and my life and my family and also myself. So as I was going through the work, it was a wonderful project, but I just came to realize I need to do something different. I need to expand and explore and really figure out what the next chapter looks like for me. So I then quit my job. I took a sabbatical. And it was at that point, that's when I founded the company, not quite sure what I was going to do. And that's when I started pursuing some consulting work as well through a firm. But it was for me, I got I get so much satisfaction out of doing the individual engagements. There's so much that I get out of, especially when I'm coaching individuals, when you see the impact that you're able to help support somebody to do, I mean, to really and truly become the leaders that they want to be. It's a, it's a, I mean, I, you know, I think you can pretty much relate to this too, Maureen, and the work that you do. It's it's quite revolutionary and it's incredibly powerful to see that happen. And the more I was doing it, the more I realized this is a big part of the business that that of the work that I want to be doing. And I can do this, I can, I can figure out a way of doing this on my own. You know, it was like, okay, these are these, I used to say trust myself. You know, it was a matter of, okay, when you go out on your own, you do have to trust yourself. So there is a certain amount of courage. And, you know, we always tend to go to, you know, the most negative, like, what's the worst thing that can happen? I was saying, what's the best thing that can happen? So if if I fail, then I fail. And, you know, there's this great quote from Seth Godin, which is, what would you do if you could fail? If you, you know, it's it's not about if you couldn't fail, it's like if you, if you can. I like that reframe. I like the idea of being courageous and trying it and seeing what works because that's where the growth happens. It's where we all go through that period of pushing ourselves into those zones of, well, I don't know, let me see what this is like. And it can be icky and scary, but I find that the rewards I've been doing that through my life with moving to different cities and trying different jobs. It's very satisfying to me to figure out what I like to do and also what I don't like to do. As you know, it's just as important to say, yeah, this isn't for me, as it is to really lean into what's what's great for you.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Oh, wow. Suzanne, that's amazing, though. That is really amazing. And to have that kind of mindset is so empowering because you're so right. A lot of times people focus on the negative, but just focusing on the positive, what could work? What how you know that just makes such a difference? So I really must commend you there because honestly, to really set up a business or go out on your own in the middle of a pandemic is no mean fit at all. And you've really done so well through it. So, you know, well done, well done to you. So now let's kind of go a bit into what you said. I want to pick up on one of the things you said about self-awareness. How do you describe or define awareness?

SPEAKER_01 10:21

So, with I mean, self-awareness in particular is not one perspective. It's that delicate balance of two perspectives. So it's it's the perspective of how you are experiencing yourself. And I like to say experiencing because it doesn't mean that this is how you are, it just means that this is really how you're showing up. So it's the balance of how you experience yourself and also how other people are experiencing you. So there's no one truth. And it's really about that, which can be tension, but it's also that balance of what are the things that I really enjoy doing and what are the things that are most effective for me and how I'm relating to other people? And what are the things that are allowing me to truly realize what I what I want for myself? Like these are my objectives. Is this what's gonna get me there? Or are these potentially holding me back in some way? So I see self-awareness as something that is it's it's an everyday practice. It is not, you're never just there. It's always that process of getting feedback from other people, checking in also with yourself to have a better idea of where am I right now? And I will also, you know, I will be very truthful. I mean, COVID in particular, I regressed in certain ways over the past 16 months, as I'm sure most of us have. Sometimes I'm not showing up exactly how I want to because of stress or anxiety or other things that come into play. And that's okay. It's just a matter of, I would rather know that and be at, you know, come to terms with it and give myself some grace and give other people grace as well. Because that's how we, that's how we get better. That's how we relate, is when we open up and we have that vulnerability and we're able to truly communicate and connect to to be who we want to be and to help others do the same.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

Thank you so much for that. Um, I I really love what you said about awareness because it's it's really the balance and it's not one thing. It's just it's that it's the ex and you said also experiencing how you experience things and how people experience you is really important. Um, so yeah, no, thanks so much for that. I'm gonna pick up on one of the things that you said you you know you really help people achieve. And one of the main things is we I know you talked about change management, which I'm gonna come to, but in terms of communication, how do you help leaders communicate? But in fact, before I even get to leaders, I want us, I want you to define what who is what is who is a leader?

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Thank you for asking that question, because I think it's incredibly important. I don't see leadership as a role, I see leadership as a mindset. It's really about your behaviors and your actions as a human being. So we are all leaders in different aspects of our lives. And I'm going back to what you were, the first part of that question.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Yeah, the the the first part was really the communication. And I'm glad you said that because a lot of times uh people can tend to feel that a leader is someone who manages people. If you don't manage people, then you're not a leader. And that's why I really wanted you to talk about that, because leadership, everyone is a leader. You know, I always say if you're not leading anyone, you're leading yourself. And and the and the first, you know, the way to even become an effective leader is to first and foremost be able to lead yourself anyway. So, in terms of communication, how do you help leaders, which could be a leader in a in a corporate organization, which could even be an entrepreneur? How do you help them in terms of being effective communication and why is it important?

SPEAKER_01 14:02

Sure. I work with uh with clients in a number of ways in communication. I do some projects where I actually will help to write with people. I mean, I will come in as a consultant where I'm doing some writing specifically. But as somebody that is really working as a communications coach, I do workshops for people. I do them for teams, you know, custom workshops for clients overall. I also do them online. So people can sign up for live online workshops where I have a specific communications workshop, which is really all about how do you, you know, we are surrounded now by a tsunami of information coming at us every day. How do you actually hook people's attention and keep it?

SPEAKER_00 14:42

How do you hook people's attention and keep it? How do you do that? But I'm not gonna let you go further. How do you actually hook people's attention and keep it?

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Well, the ch the challenge that we have is that, you know, I there's a stat that in the last two years, more information has been created than in all of humankind. So there's literally a tsunami coming at us every day. And that our attention span on average now, in the year 2020, it was 12 seconds. Now it's eight. Wow. So in 20 years, we've lost a quarter of our attention span. So when you're communicating with people, it's incredibly important to realize what their attention span is. You have to grab it and you have to, so you lead with what matters. So that can be what you're looking to get out of it, what the why is. You have to have something up front to hook them so you can keep them in that zone. And I also recommend that when you're communicating with other people, I mean, it's it's so much of a dance, right? It literally is because it's not just an exchange, it's a dance. You're picking up on cues, you're getting an idea of where people are and where you need to go. Sometimes it can be awkward and you're going to move around and figure out what works. But it's very important to know who you're talking to, what matters to them, and why. And if you are always thinking about their why, that really needs to be your North Star. It needs to be who they are, what matters to them, not always where you're coming from. So if you're if you're focusing on their why, you have a much better chance of hooking their attention and keeping it.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Yeah. Yeah. No, that I think that's that's really powerful, actually. Um, who you're talking to matters, what matters to them and why. That is that is really powerful because a lot of times, and you said something which is so important, you know, you're not talking to yourself, you're talking to them. So it has to be in a language that they would understand, it has to be in a way that they would, it would make sense to them, or their brain would really pick up on it. So, in terms of communication, because a lot of times, Shelley in corporates, a lot of the issues that um a lot of managers have is really getting people to buy into the ideas or buy into what you know um the goals of the organization or whatever, or even tasks that they're doing. How do you help leaders like that in terms of how they communicate with their with their team? Also, in terms of communication, another big issue that you tend to find that creates conflict is a breakdown in communication. So, how you know, talk to us about, or you can even give a case study of how you actually have helped people in an organization relating to communication.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Sure. I have a number of clients where when I do a coaching package with them, I'll do what's called an observation session. So I actually go to a meeting with them or I go to a Zoom meeting and I observe them. So I'm I'm the fly on the wall. And it's fascinating to do that because I mean, this is where self-awareness comes in. I mean, talk about that balance because it's not just about what I'm hearing from my client, but it's also, you know, seeing them in the wild. Like, you know, what are the things that they're doing? How are people responding to them? And in those scenarios, it it allows you to really pick up on what are the words that they're using that are potentially undermining them, that are getting them away from the objectives that they're looking to achieve with their team. Because you can say words that are that hijack other people, not just yourself, but other people. So it's making sure that you, I mean, language can be one simple thing. It can be body language, it can be, you know, just how you're setting up an agenda, what the what the terms are as far as, you know, meeting efficiency or meeting hygiene, as they say. But I also think of it, especially with getting buy-in from larger team, it's always about their why. So if it's your team as a leader, what do they care about? And why are they there? And if these are people that are at the organization, it's very likely that they share the values of the organization, or one would hope. So if you're able to truly anchor in on what are the values of the organization, what's most meaningful for them, and being open to listen to them. I mean, that's the other thing is that leaders, it's not, you know, again, communication is an exchange. You are co-creating it. So I also encourage for any conversation, and this is a meeting, this is an email, even, or even a text message. I mean, a little bit harder because there's fewer words going on there, but it's, you know, we tend to assume outcomes. We tend to go into a conversation and we say, this, this, this, and it's going to be done. And we're not listening. So giving the ability or giving people the ability to share by asking certain questions or teeing up certain dialogue, that's a great way to be able to bubble up conversation that they don't necessarily expect, and nor would you. So I encourage leaders, I mean, you know, active listening overall, which is asking open-ended questions, you know, as you know, don't ask something with a yes-no answer because you want people to be able to talk through and there's magic that can happen when they're actually communicating with you. I also think it's incredibly important to check for understanding, because if people aren't with you and you keep going, you're just going to keep, you've already lost them. So if if you're, you know, only make move on when it makes sense. And if it does make sense, if everybody's clear, yes, move on, because you also don't want to belabor something. But it's that idea of let's all get in this together and let's let's go along, you know, let's travel this in a way that is that is the most meaningful. I also think that, you know, sometimes just something as as easy as summarizing to say, well, what I'm hearing is this, because you're also confirming to somebody else that you're really listening to them. And if you're repeating back some of the words that they use, just as you're doing, you know, is in your interview with me right now, people know that you're present. They know that you're there, they know that you're paying attention. And that's the other thing is, you know, half the time we're so busy, we're scattered, we're not paying attention to the person that we're having the conversation with. And a lot of leaders don't necessarily know that. They don't know the weight or the, you know, that they're bringing with them to that conversation. And that is going to influence how people are experiencing them. So there's a certain degree of, you know, mindfulness. I mean, we've talked about this in the past. How do you cultivate that presence to be in the moment and truly pay attention to people and pick up also on what they're not saying? That body language, that energy, there's something there. And people think that this has to take a ton of time. You can do this in in quick periods if you are very intentional about these are the objectives of the meeting, these are some of the questions that I want to ask and give it some freedom. It's that interesting combination of structure and fluidity, right? So, how do you how do you give a little bit of a buffer for expanse for conversation to happen, but also be Focused on outcomes. So, and that's an individual dance that people have to figure out on their own. But it's that to me is where the magic happens is how do you how do you actually have those conversations where you're asking questions, you're asking good questions, people are coming back at you with thoughts that maybe even they didn't expect. And what can you potentially turn it into? And there's different question structures and other things that you can do to help that process along.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Yeah, gosh, no, you really gave us quite a lot there. And I think what what one of the things of some of the things that you said that really, really stood out for me was listening. It's being an active listener. Because, and you said we assume outcomes. I love that. Because it's so true that a lot of times when people are talking, they're actually assuming what the you know, what the end result will be and not really paying attention to the person in front of you. And this really applies to different relationships, not just at work. In our personal relationships, when you know, in in all the relationships we have, that communication or how we communicate is so important. And just being able to listen is so important. You said something which, you know, in fact, I was nodding so much because when you said check for understanding, I was really nodding because a lot of times I always say that people, you know, you might say something, but because of the way that person's brain, the person listening to you, their own brain is wired, they've got different experiences. What you've actually said, the way they're hearing it might be completely different. So just checking the understanding, or even repeating what you said, or even saying, or even when they say things, even what you're hearing, to even just say, I hear you say this is so important, or even get them to repeat what you said in their own, in their own words, just to make sure that the meaning you've given it is the same meaning that they've actually understood. I think that is one really important point, because a lot of times that's where you find a lot of problems, because you say something and somebody else is hearing something else. And you you did say at some point about we're all individuals, we're all unique. And it's really remembering that that is so important because the way you speak, understand, is different from somebody else. So just being able to learn who they are, understand who they are, so that you can talk to them in a language they understand. And the best way is that questions, like you've mentioned, asking the questions, open-ended questions, because that's the best way to actually find out what is going on in someone's brain. But it also helps them find out what is going on in their brain. And this brings us back to the whole point of awareness, because a lot of times things are in the brain, but we're not aware of them. And it's from question, questions or even thinking deeply that enables us that you know, things start coming up and say, oh my gosh, is that what was in my brain? Is that what I believe? Is that how I see things? And you know, this can lead us into unconscious bias and all the rest, but we won't go there now. Body language is something you've mentioned. How you know, I'm saying this, and my you said so much that my brain is on is already firing. The neurons in my brain are going on fire. So I'm about to ask a question, and something else was coming up, which I don't want to forget to do with time, but I'm gonna come back to it. In terms of body language, how do how can you know what advice do you really give people to help them pick up on other people's body language? Because you see, communication is so it's deep because you know, it's it's not like you said, it's not just talking and listening, it's really looking at the person's body language, and it's it there's a lot you're picking up. So, how do you you know, for someone who is really just starting to get into being able to communicate effectively or being an effective communicator, what advice do you give?

SPEAKER_01 27:02

It's almost like anthropology. I mean, it's it's almost a matter of just picking up on, and and you know, people have different patterns and habits and and characteristics individually. But there's a lot that you can pick up from people by seeing, you know, where are they looking? Where are how are they sitting? I mean, just energy. You can gain that energy. You don't have to be in the same room and you can be on a call like this. It's also their hands. I mean, you can also look at people's, like if they're doing something, if they're uneasy, if they're bored. There's different ways that you can pick up. And it's also stress. I mean, I've I've had a lot of conversations with, especially with clients as a coach, where you start to talk about something and you just physically see them start to tense up. You know, it's a matter of you you get a better idea of, you know, or the leaky face. I mean, I always say the leaky face. So there's a lot of different things that you can pick up on people. And, you know, as a coach, sharing observations is a big part of the work and saying, you know, I'm I'm observing that you're you're you're stressed out right now, or there's some some tension there. Obviously, you're not going to be able to do that in all of the conversations and relationships that you're having, but it really is taking that time to observe and to not, I mean, again, it's assuming outcomes. It's a matter of when you know you're going to have an awkward or difficult conversation, some of that's going to happen and that's unavoidable. But this is where it's all the more important where you're controlling your body language and your physical reaction so that people aren't picking up on it because it's contagious, right? I mean, if if if I start doing something, there's a very good chance that you're like, oh, she's nervous, and then she's, you know. And if you're if you're speaking to somebody that works for you or a boss or somebody else, they pick up on that energy.

unknown 28:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

And it's so it really is anthropology of other people and also of yourselves.

SPEAKER_00 29:00

Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's so true. Because you see, when you're speaking to some what someone and you're picking up body language, like you said, sometimes you might not even be able to say anything, you know, if you're not in a coaching situation or you're the person's manager or close relationship, but you have that understanding and awareness to now take an action. It might be to stop, it might be to ask a different question, you know, but it's it just gives you that opportunity to do something. And I'll give an example actually, because yesterday I got a phone call and it was someone who had called about me taking on an HR service with them, and um, which I was going to do because I had actually reached out to them previously. So he called, which was fine. But I then said to him that, okay, because he said you need to book an appointment with somebody, he needs to book an appointment for me with someone else. And he was going on and on and on about all the services. And at that point, I said, see, I've got a meeting in about 10 minutes. Um, and I can't really decide on the timing now. I'll get back to you or you can call me back. And he went, but that but that kind of went on for another two minutes. And I'm going, he's not listening to me. I said, I've got a meeting. So when he finished, because I kind of waited, when he finished, I repeated what I said again that I've got a meeting in about eight minutes. So I can't really, I'm not in the right mind frame now to really arrange a meeting. And he went on about how important it was for me to have a meeting. And at that point, he lost me. I just went, there's no way I'm working with these people. So I just said, you know what? I'll get back to you. I have to go now. And I dropped the phone. And that is a typical example of where he had his own outcome he wanted. And for him, it was that get her to book a meeting. But he wasn't listening to me. And I really would have booked that meeting if it wasn't that attitude. And it's not that we're talking that I it actually came to me. I went, wow, that is a typical example of what not to do.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Yeah, and it's I I love that you're sharing that example because one of the exercises that I do in some of my workshops is basically paying attention and what it's like to not be paid attention to by other people. So this is this is a self-awareness exercise. And so we say, okay, for one minute, talk like you know, Maureen, you talk to me, but I'm not going to pay attention to you. I'm going to pick up my phone. I'm deliberately not going to look at you and what that feels like. Exactly. And that's agony for a minute. It's it's it's really hard. And I think that a lot of people don't understand how how the other people are experiencing them in those scenarios. Yeah. Because if you're, you know, and it's it's the same the other way. It, you know, I always say your three most precious resources as a human being are your time, your attention, and your energy.

SPEAKER_00 32:14

Oh. So you need to attention, energy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

So you need to be incredibly, you know, thoughtful in where you're spending it, because it's, you know, you are spending it in different ways. So, and it's, I would much rather be in a conversation with somebody for 15 minutes that is a quality, present conversation than an hour where half of us are checked out and not really paying attention to each other. So if we really start focusing more on the now and being present for each other, that's where the magic can tend to happen. And it gives us more time in our lives since we're focusing more on quality than quantity.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Wow. No, that that is that is that is so true. Wow, we have kind of touched on quite a bit. Um, I did say I was going to talk about time. Because a lot of people say that they don't have time to pay attention to people, to uh you know, look listen to body language. Shelly, as a leader in an organization, you've got um deadlines, you've got things that so much you're doing, and then you're managing people, and there, you know, what you what I hear a lot, you don't have time to really start paying attention to people's body language, to you know, asking the right questions. What would you say to this?

SPEAKER_01 33:46

We all have the same amount of time in the world. I mean, it's it's not about having enough time, it's our relationship with time.

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Thank you. Please repeat that again. Repeat that again. That is a drop mic one. So good.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Uh we all have the same amount of time. It's not about us not having enough time, it's about our relationship with time.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

That is massive. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Thank you so much for that. I think that just answers it. That says it all, actually. Uh yeah, that says it all because a lot of times people complain so much about not enough time, not enough time, not enough time. But you are so, so, so right. Go on.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

Can I build on that? So, and this to me is where communication comes in, which is so important, the the partnership of communication and time, because communication really is the relationship. I mean, if you think about how much of any relationship are you spending in communication? 75 to 90 percent, probably in general. So being intentional and figuring out ways to be able to communicate more effectively will not just build trust and actually create connection with other people, but it saves you time because you're able to maximize the exchange with people. So, because, and that doesn't mean that you have to be surgical in every single conversation that you have, because you do want to have a certain amount, as we talked about before, you know, like having some buffer for you know just what you want to accomplish, but knowing what kind of exchange you're in, knowing what kind of communication it's going to be. Is this something where you're having a debate? Is this something where you're actually, you know, didactic and sharing something if it's one way versus an exchange, knowing what that is and actually, you know, spending a little bit of time to tee it up will save you so much time in the end. And it's not just about you saving your time, it's saving the time of the people that are in that exchange with you.

SPEAKER_00 35:51

Yeah, yeah, that's that's so true. I know we're coming to the end soon, but one of the things I wanted to really touch on is a lot of what we are talking about in terms of communication really needs organizations and leaders in particular to create that safe space in a way, a safe space for people to be able to feel comfortable to have this type of communication or exchanges where they really where they're I would say or what is your take on vulnerability in terms of communication? Because you need to make yourself vulnerable to be able to be effective as a communicator. Can you elaborate a bit on that for us?

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Sure. Um, I mean, vulnerability is key, and you know, vulnerability is also about courage. It's about having the courage to lay yourself out there and open yourself up. And in communication, I see a lot of that as being open for feedback and giving people the opportunity to share their thoughts and asking really good questions is how you can do that. And that's the thing is when you when you tailor a question in a way that opens yourself up and allows you to receive feedback and then clarifying and making sure that you're continuing to have a good understanding. I mean, going back to the checking for understanding, there's something that's so powerful about a senior level executive asking anybody in the organization, you know, what's one thing that maybe I could be doing differently that would be that would make your job easier or that would that would be more, you know, you can phrase that in any way, but the idea of being specific in the request makes a massive difference because if you go at it with this vague, how am I doing? Yeah, you know, as a recipient, your brain is like, whoa, how how do you even take all of that in? But if you say, Oh, if and if they ask you for that, then you start getting specific and you know they want to hear it.

SPEAKER_00 38:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

So it's also being intentional, it's not just saying, Oh, I'm vulnerable. You're you're saying it and you're saying, I really want to understand what you mean when you're saying, like, you know, I I find that you're aggressive in your communication style. Like, but let's just say that's an example. Can you elaborate on that? Let's I would like to understand what I'm doing that maybe makes you feel that way. That's the other thing is the magic of those exchanges and having that clarity. And that's what builds the trust. It's that openness and it's that it's that clarity, I think, that makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

God, you've you've really touched on a massive point there. Um, because being able to be open to feedback definitely builds trust, massive trust. And and I like, I love the example you gave. There could be someone in a senior leadership room asking somebody else, you know, for feedback. How do you feel I'm doing in this aspect? Or can you give me any feedback or how I could be better? It just one, it makes them remember or see you again as a human being. And I'm and it brings you to their level in terms of being human, and it just makes people relax, and that way you'll be able to get the best out of them. So, no, thank you so much for that example. Thank you again. Honestly, um, Susan, for I know we've we don't have much time and we've literally come to the end, but you touched on so much here, and honestly, I know there are people out there that really need help. So if you just tell us how people work with you, what it looks like, and then where they can find you.

SPEAKER_01 39:58

Um, probably the best place to find information about me and my offerings is at my website. So that's at Wellercollaboration.com. I also, I mean, I'm on LinkedIn, obviously. I think most people are on LinkedIn. I post quite regularly with different articles and different things. I'm also on Instagram at Weller Collaboration. Those are those are the ways that you can reach out to me. I work with individuals who who contact me, but I also work with organizations. And I'm brought in for larger consulting projects. I'm brought in for workshops and training. I also do, I mean, a lot of coaching engagements, which are traditionally done on a package basis or a retainer, and also thought partnership. I mean, people bring me in to say, you know, I want that hybrid between a coach and advisor, or I'd love to have a retainer with you, or I can give you a call once a month and bounce ideas around. So it's it's many different forms. And I, you know, as I said, workshops too. So those are on my site as far as if people want to be able to join into those. And I'm always looking for, I'm always looking for opportunities to connect with people in different ways. So, and I do customize workshops as well. So that's a really nice way to be able to adapt my offering based on what clients need.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

Yeah, thank you so much. And I'm going to put um all your um links in the description. So if you need the links, you can find them in the description as well. So thank you so much, Susan. So before we go, can you give our listeners one final word of wisdom? Because communication is so, so, so important. As we can see, we literally touched on the tip of it. You know, there's just so much that we need to be effective in anything we do, and communication comes quite high on the list. So please just give us one last word of wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 41:49

I think regardless of where you are in your professional journey, communication is always something that you can be focusing on in a new way, trying something different, trying something new. And it's really about connection over perfection. So don't be afraid to try something new and to figure out how you can really and truly connect with people in new ways.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Connection over perfection. I like that. So thank you so much. We're going to end with that. Connection over perfection. Thank you so much once again for joining us on the2xel podcast. It's really, really been a pleasure. And I'm so pleased I met you at Elevate. So uh it's such a joy. I can't wait to really see you in person and probably do another recording, but in person, that would be awesome. So thank you so much, Susan.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Thank you, Maureen. I so appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 42:48

Okay, three things before we finish today. Have you subscribed to this podcast? If you haven't, make sure you click that subscribe button wherever you listen to this podcast. Because once you subscribe, you will not miss an episode. And as usual, if you have a topic you would love me to speak about or bring a guest on, do let me know by leaving a review. Finally, do have a fantastic week and remember that you are limitless. So I look forward to seeing you in our next episode. Bye for now.