SPEAKER_00 0:06

Hey there, Maureen Cherna here, founder of the Mindsight Academy, neurocoach to executives, leaders, entrepreneurs, and a neuroleadership trainer using insights from neuroscience to help you deliver results by learning to work smarter, be in control of your brain, manage yours and others' emotions, change behaviors, flourish, and exceed expectations. Welcome back to another episode of Lead to Excel Podcast. I am so thrilled to be with you today because we have a special guest. But before we get into that, remember to subscribe to this podcast wherever you listen to it. Because it will help other people find it and give them the opportunity to understand how they can rewire their own brain to enable them to achieve their goals. So without wasting any more time, grab your cup of coffee or your drink or whatever that might be, put your feet up and listen in. I'm so excited today with my special guest, Janice Underwood. Now, Janice is a co-founder and project leadership consultant at Bison Consulting. I hope I've pronounced that well, but she will correct us in a second. So, um, and here she helps projects succeed by loving conflict to death. And I think I'm just going to stop there and let Janice introduce herself because this bait is just amazing. So, Janice, welcome to Lead to Excel podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Oh, Maureen, thank you so much for having me. It's so great to be here and looking forward to our conversation today.

SPEAKER_00 1:49

Oh, I'm absolutely excited to have you on. And I really can't wait to dig deep into what you do. So I know I've introduced you briefly, but can you just introduce yourself in more detail to our listeners?

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah, yeah. So, like Maureen said, I am a co-founder and a consultant here at Vizin Consulting. And uh, you know, I have loved projects ever since I was, well, ever since I could do them and learned about them. And one of the things that I, you know, as I look back on my career, I also have loved supporting the people I worked for, uh, the leaders at different leadership levels. And I think that, you know, as as this work has come together, it's just been such a, you know, Maureen, have you ever had it to where you look back and you go, wow, all of those steps got me here? Like I didn't know that, but everything I've done has gotten me to this moment. And that's how I feel. And it's been just such a pleasure to work with people in administering the conflict dynamics profile, which we'll talk about in a little bit, which is an it's just such a great assessment tool. And I'm finding the impact to be well, actually more than um I anticipated. And and it's just making me extremely um, well, it's extremely proud to do this work to support people and their project teams to succeed.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

Awesome. You know, you said something which is really important because a lot of times people worry about, oh, am I doing the right thing? Is this what I'm meant to be doing? And you said that it's things that you've done in the past, all those things accumulatively bring you to where you are now. And it's so true. Every experience, everything we go through is useful. There's nothing wasted. So can you just tell us what you were doing previously and how it led to what we're going to really be talking about today?

SPEAKER_01 3:57

Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, I mean, I I was pretty shy. Um, and so it was always unnerving to me that people would put me in positions to do customer service, um, to do sales, and uh I wasn't quite comfortable with that. But what I was very comfortable with was working uh uh on teams. And and I was all right taking a leadership role in in helping people come together, you know, to work better together. And this started a long time ago. I mean, I worked uh, you know, it started in fast food and then retail, and then I went to school and became an electrical engineer, and uh that put me in uh my first job was actually at NASA uh in uh Houston, Texas, in the United States. And um, I actually took over a project, a quality project there. And you know, just ever since then, that's kind of been my career, the people uh aspect of it. And and as you know, you can have a really good team of smart people, but it doesn't necessarily mean they're gonna become a cohesive, high-performing team. And you're nodding your head, so you know what I'm talking about, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:14

I do, I do. Yeah, it's um it that's that's really a great point you've mentioned. And the fact that you said you're an electrical engineer, it's really interesting because this week I moderated um a session with engineers talking about how to create impactful engineer teams in engineering teams. And it's really interesting you said that because your background, which is as an electrical engineer, you tend to find that a lot of engineers in particular are very skilled at what they do. And like so many other professions, you know, IT, legal, so many facts, you know, most professions, that's the key, and that's what people tend to look for, the skills that people come in with. But like you said, when they come together, that's not what actually creates a cohesive team. And it's being able to have a cohesive team that leads to being impactful and achieving that performance. So it brings us to, and I think before we get into it, how did you then move from being an electrical engineer to now focusing more on conflict resolution? How did you make that leap? And I know you've touched on it a bit about your love for working in teams and leading projects and leadership, but if you kind of just explain how you did that, because it's unusual.

SPEAKER_01 6:43

It is, it is. You know, um it's it's so great because uh what I can, what I bring to the table is an understanding of how hard it is to navigate interpersonal relationships. Because uh although I really loved the technical aspect and helping people do their best, you know, because I worked a lot with cross-functional teams, uh, trying to get everybody on board to implement new compliance initiatives in the organizations. Um, you know, I found myself kind of faltering. And uh I took it on myself to do, to spend the weekends learning uh about myself, more about myself, uh learning interpersonal skills, learning uh what I was bringing to the table that wasn't helpful and what was helpful, and working with someone and to, you know, my instructor at that time, working with them to really start implementing what I was learning about myself and what I could do better, and just trying it out. So uh, you know, in my last role, uh before I kind of uh went before I went into coaching, because uh that led me into going into coaching once I, you know, got more skills. I felt like, oh, you know, these projects are going better. I was having conversations with people that I just couldn't have before, those tough conversations. And what I learned was I was just really good at listening. And I was really good at asking questions to figure out what people were actually concerned about, not what their behavior seemed to be telling me, because those could be two different things. Uh, for example, you know, one person would look like they were disinterested in the meeting, um, but if I talked to them afterwards, that's not the case. They were listening and they were listening intently. And we had amazing conversations that led to creative solutions that I would have never thought of. So you just don't know by looking at someone. You really have to be present with them and spend some time, and that's what a lot of my job was spending time with people. So you can see that segue into coaching, right? And then I honed in that one-on-one, helping business owners, entrepreneurs, uh, people in the holistic uh health field, because there's a lot of burnout in that field. And so that was part of my job as well, as their coach, is to help them uh find out where that performance threshold was for them as well and help them not burn out.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, no, I like that. And it just comes through from what you're saying, your passion for really helping people. And, you know, so you're an engineer, you're a coach, you are one amazing woman, and you're a consultant in conflict resolution. That's absolutely awesome. And I love what you said about listening, listening and asking questions. And it really is so important because a lot of times we deal with people as a whole, you know, different people the same. But I love the way you said it's really listening to people and not taking them at face value, not just making assumptions, assumptions based on what you see. And that's so key. It's really focusing on people as individuals, speaking to them, because then you'll find out, you know, what is really going on. The example you gave is one I was guilty of. I used to run meetings, and there was this particular person who, in every meeting, his head was bent and he would be doodling, just drawing things on his sheet. And it used to wind me up so much, you know, that he wasn't paying attention. So at the end of one of the meetings, I called him in and just had a conversation with him. Is why do you do that? It's like you don't pay attention. And he, by the time we finished that conversation, I felt really bad. In fact, I was so enlightened. He was paying so much attention. He really was involved. He was, you know, he showed me his notes. Yes, he was doodling, but he was thinking, he was coming up with ideas, and it was just amazing. And that was when I really stopped making those kind of judgments based on what I perceived people were doing. And you see, that's because for me, if I'm doing that, it's because I'm not paying attention, but it doesn't mean that he wasn't paying attention. So that is a really good example you've given. So let's move in now into this whole issue of conflict. Because a lot of times you have teams who are really skilled at what they do, but what really holds them back from achieving what they should, you know, the performance or productivity of results is not being able to work well together, or some form of conflict can arise from different opinions. So, what's your role? How do you do this? And how did you actually find, you know, make it become an interest that is now what you do?

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yeah, you know, I think the deeper interest in conflict resolution came in. Uh I work, uh, you know, I'm a co-founder with in this company and I work with my husband. Um, and you know, we have always had this dream to have this company. In fact, we started it back in gosh, I think 2013, 2014. And uh we were doing all right, doing workshops together and stuff, but you know what? We just were not collaborating very well. I mean, the two of us. We really uh had the same values, we knew what we wanted to do, uh, we had some uh similar backgrounds, and uh we just couldn't, we couldn't get past some of our own conflict. So we decided, you know what, we need to do some growth, obviously, because this company is too important for us not to run it in the in the way that we want. So we went off, did our separate business things, and you know, it just took just years of us doing our own thing, of me really diving in, like, okay, what is it? You know, how can I get this help? Unfortunately, back then I didn't know about the CDP, I didn't know about the conflict dynamics profile, and I didn't even know, okay, here's the thing. I didn't even know that I needed to go through the conflict resolution door. Because to me, you know, remember, I'm an engineer, and then you know, going to coaching, I'm not an HR person. And all I thought about in my own career was well, conflict conflict resolution, that's something that HR and big companies take care of. You know, that's that's not what's going on here. So I never thought to walk through that door, and it took us until, you know, we um we currently live in Spain um right now, and you know, it took us moving here, and it was just such a great growth opportunity that I got to dig in and go, all right, you know, almost like a life review, Maureen. Have you ever done that before where you're like, okay, let's take a pause here. All right, I've done this growth. Yeah. I bet you what do I do now? And I took some deeper dives. And one of the things I realized was um, as I had thought, I was working with this career coach, and uh I thought, okay, I'm good at listening. I'm good, I I don't mind people getting in my face and and yelling and stuff because I get that that's just that's not who they are. It's just their way of expressing themselves isn't yeah, maybe they're scared, maybe they're upset, maybe I actually did something that warrants that, right? Um, and as I started looking through this, working with this career coach, I realized, oh my gosh, I have always been interested in mediation. I had just completely forgotten that. You know, I would go to um workshops or something, and one of them was actually held in a in a uh nice office building in Austin, Texas. And uh it was uh I would always pass by this little plaque that would say, you know, mediation services. And I'm like, wow, that would be so cool. And I had just forgotten about that. So um I, you know, so now I'm in Spain. Uh how do I get mediation training? How do I really see if that's the thing that, you know, I like? And sure enough, you know, um, okay, COVID has not been good, but also it's also brought things that I might not have access to. So it actually brought me to Eckert College and their programs under the Mediation Training Institute. And uh I said, well, let me just see what this is all about. And you know, Maureen, I was so, I was like, I was taking this course in mediation, and I'm like, wait a minute, that's what I was doing. Like, I know about this. I know, you know, I know about uh figuring out common goals, uh having joint sessions versus you know talking to people separately, figuring out where they are, and um, and then that then I knew I was like, you know what? I know how I can help people when I didn't help myself. Does that make sense? Like I was like, oh, as a technical person, I knew I needed interpersonal skills, and I've I've always been interested in neuroscience as well. So I'm like, and I know our experiences shape how we think. Absolutely, right? So I was like, huh, I know how I can help. This is gonna be a culmination of all of my career, and and that's actually where this conflict resolution. So I got um certified in conflict uh resolution training for workplaces, and um and and got certified to administer the conflict dynamics profile as well. To me, you know, I think this work is so important. So how we want to help is we want to start by helping the project leaders, the project managers, because what I do know, and this is just from my own experience, and I don't know, you can tell me if if you've seen this as well, but what I know is is if you can have one person who is more skilled and more comfortable and calm and confident with small conflict, that whole team will be able to thrive.

SPEAKER_00 17:31

Yes, yes, yes, that is so true. That is so true.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

If just one person can change the interpersonal dynamics of a team, and if it's a leader, oh my gosh, because you know, I think we all have been part of those teams where there's a moderator or a leader that's just maybe they have anxiety, maybe they're new in their position, and they just don't quite know how to foster the interpersonal connection that that team needs. And so now you have just a bunch of individuals.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

And you know, you that is so important, and I bring us back to what you said originally. You said that you started working on yourself first, and I think that's so key for so for a leader, you've got to learn to work. It's that self-leadership, because I always say you cannot lead others if you can't lead yourself. You started the work on yourself first, then it became you and your husband because you were going into this, you know, into partnership. You had to work on yourselves first, then come back together. And it's the same principle for a leader. You would make such a great impact when you work on yourself first, learn the tools first. I would say become more emotionally intelligent, you first, and then you can then help people. And you know, it then it actually will help you as a leader be able to read people better, you know, like we've been discussing. Yes, you don't take people at face value because you understand yourself, so you're kind of then thinking, okay, what this person is presenting, there might be more to it, there might be something going on in the background, you know, that we don't know about. And it's then you're then open to having those conversations or asking questions and listening deeply to the person. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

Yeah, and I love I love that you say that because what I like about the conflict dynamics profile is it treats conflict as a dynamic process. So we're never stuck in one place. We're dynamic systems, all of us. And what I love about this assessment tool is that we ask people to think about a specific situation because we know that people are not gonna be behaving, they're not gonna behave in the same way with a different person, with a different situation, uh, for example, personal versus professional. You know, you're gonna behave differently depending on your comfort level uh from neuroscience, right? Who they remind you of. Past experiences. And that's what I love about it because um, and you know, uh when I'm doing these feedback sessions with um people, so they take the assessment and I'm gonna stop you there for a second because you actually started touching on a point, which is where I want to bring us to, and I kind of want us to dig deeper into it.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

So the conflict dynamics profile is what you use with clients or the leaders, because your your focus is mainly project lead and those in project leadership or project management, is that right?

SPEAKER_01 21:37

Yeah, or managers, you know, uh also executives. Executives have taken very, very well to this because you know, sometimes you have different uh work styles or different um perceptions, you know, like so say you're the COO, you and your CEO may kind of clash a little bit. And so that's been really helpful for people at that level as well.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Awesome. So you work with all time, all well, all levels of leaders. And do you work with teams as well? Does this work with teams or is the focus on the leadership?

SPEAKER_01 22:10

Yeah, we're focusing right now on the leadership um because uh because we want to really hone this in on the individual level. So right now I'm certified to administer the tool to individuals. I'm not doing the team bit yet, but if there are a few people who are working together and they do want to do that, I I can get a uh a team snapshot for it. You know, but I'm I'm I'm always intrigued with what one person can shift.

unknown 22:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

And I want leaders to be more empowered because you know what? Management jobs, leadership jobs are hard.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Yeah, yeah. They're hard. They're hard. We need good leaders. We need leaders who can be impactful. Right. Okay. So now the work you do, you use this conflict dynamics profile. Could you explain what this is? So how you use it with clients or how you use it, you know, what is it? And just tell us a bit about, in fact, give us detail. How does it work?

SPEAKER_01 23:15

Yeah, yeah. It's a really easy tool to administer. Um, so a person will um do the online assessment and uh they'll get a feedback report. And uh, you know, before that moment though, you know, we'll um we'll be having a conversation. And you know, usually it's through the the door of stress or tension or um frustration, irritation.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

All of that. Right, right. Um Johnny, so that means that people come to you, these leaders come to you. I'm doing this so that I want to kind of get Johnny. That's what I'm trying to do. So as people come to work with you, so they come and you have start having that conversation because you're you're a coach as well. So you're a coach, you're a consultant, which is absolutely amazing. So they come to you with you know whatever issue they are having in their role. And I will say here as well, while um you start describing this for the listeners, it's paying attention to realize that this as Janice works with people based on their professional life. The fact is that this can also be used in your personal life as well, because it's to do with relationships, it's to do with how you relate with people. So, as much, and you know, I always say it's the same brain you use at work that you use at home. So, yeah, could you just you know describe that journey? So people come to work with you, you start having that conversation, like you said, and then it leads to this two. And this too is just amazing. So, can you please go on? I'm sorry I keep interrupting you. No, no, no. It's just so important for people to understand this because conflict is the one thing that really holds people back from doing, you know, achieving what they want, and also holds people back from doing what they want to do themselves. It causes stress, causes anxiety. It's just massive. So, yes, please go on.

SPEAKER_01 25:20

You know, I I love that you bring up the anxiety piece and stress because uh part of why I really dived into my own interpersonal skill development was I was working with a manager who, you know, I just felt unsafe all the time. I I felt that, you know, it was sort of one of those things, right? She brings me on the team to help the team, you know, you've got these great skills. Uh, but then I also felt that she was trying to undermine me as well. And so um I would have panic attacks at that job. And I didn't even know what panic attacks were at all. I really thought I was having a heart attack one day. Um, and so you're right, that under and it's underlying stress, right? Because if I went to talk to her and ask her, hey, have I done something that you're not um happy with? No, no, everything's fine, right? But it's that subtle stuff, you know, that's that under, you know, and and so I didn't have um, I didn't have this tool back then. I didn't, I couldn't see that, oh, okay, this is where I'm getting triggered. And so one of the things that uh the assessment tool does it is it helps us with our hot buttons. So that might be a good way to talk about who would want to utilize this, which are you know, people who um find themselves getting triggered by micromanaging type behaviors, for example, or people who are uh abrasive. You know, I've uh you know, I'm more comfortable with abrasive people, they don't bother me, but you know, I've worked with people who, wow, that is a very, very hot trigger for them. And so if you even come off even a little bit more direct, you're gonna find your system, right? Yeah, you're gonna find yourself getting somehow agitated or upset. And then, you know, what then they can understand is when they get triggered in that way with this particular situation, what behaviors are they bringing that they could rely on, right? They're the good behaviors, right? Like, oh, I'm normally a person who can take another person's perspective, but in this case, I'm not, Janice. What's going on? Okay, well, let's look at these other behaviors, your destructive behaviors. Huh? Well, look, you've got this tendency to retaliate, to also become angry. Um, and so you're gonna show it. Oh, okay, and that's gonna make that other person even more agitated, right? And they're gonna be more abrasive, which means you're gonna get even more triggered, and you can just see this cycle between the two people going um back and forth.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

So when they then start working with you with this um CDP, which is the conflict dynamics profile, how does that work? And because you and I I want you to kind of go over what you were saying before that it's a dynamic tool, because I think that's a really important point. And I know I stopped you there to kind of go back to how you use it. So if you kind of go into that detail of the take the assessment and the how the dynamic, this tool helps you to now work with them. Um, and yeah, that would be great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

Yeah, yeah, it depends on the client's goals. So perhaps they um just want to work with this tool. Um, I'll I'll go through a debrief session with them and talk to them about the specific situation and show them how they, you know, what behaviors they could maybe um cultivate better. Um, maybe some that they could work on um kind of diminishing those effects. You know, you know what we always say, right, in the in helping others, it's like the more we know about ourselves, the more that we can show up confidently and calmly to situations. But if someone seems to know us better, meaning they can push our hot buttons, that means we get unstable and and we can become, well, you know, sometimes we have behaviors that we don't want to uh be. They're not us. And that's the important thing with the CDP is that you are not these behaviors. These are behaviors that you're displaying because there's something going on with your neurobiology, uh, you know, there's something going on with your thought processes. So depending on what someone wants to do, we'll do the feedback session, they'll use the development guide. Some of them will create action plans, and uh, and then I use an accountability coaching firm that will help them do the accountability coaching. Um, but if they want to go further, for example, I had this woman who wanted to, she wanted to have a tough conversation about getting a raise with her boss, but she's not comfortable doing that and she doesn't know why. So every time she goes to do it, right, she gets into that freeze mode. And so uh one of the services that we have that is actually more of our signature product, you know, because the CDP comes through uh Mediation Training Institute, um, our signature product is actually role-playing and helping people go through these tough conversations. So, given what they've told me of the situation and given their CDP results, what I do is I create the character best I can, and we have that conversation. I take them through a three-step process so that they can get focused on what they want to say, get clear about how they want to say it and how they want to show up. And we just continue role-playing until we get to the third part, which is restful action, right? Because what I've learned, no matter how tough the situation is, if I can come to a situation, I'm learning this also in our business. So, so everything I'm talking about right here, we've done in Bazain consulting because you gotta like know how this works, how hard it is. So I so understand how hard it is to do this work. And I tell people this even if you don't have this tough conversation, I'm not holding you, I'm not gonna be your accountability coach for having this conversation. It's about the process, and it's about you being more confident, you being able to have any level of conversation now because you've gone through this role play, because you've gone through, you understand what triggers you, you understand how to be calm. Um, and you know, there are other ways I I won't get into all of that, but but that's you know, that's the whole key to it. Um, because I know that I've had to ask for very difficult things as a um as an as a project engineer, but I know that if I went into my manager's office or the director's office or the COO's office, and I was clear, if I was calm, and no matter even if they were like, you know, harsh at first or you know, wanted to kind of you know shoe me away, um, if I could just be present and stay there with them, I could at least communicate the need. And I always knew that I did well because they would say, hmm, all right, Janice, I'll have to get back to you. Let me think about it. So it doesn't mean that we even get what we want in that moment. It's just can we just show up and and and be focused and clear?

SPEAKER_00 33:05

I love that, I love that, I love that. Gosh, yeah, you touched on a lot of points there. That is so true. I love the fact that you talked about role playing as well using role playing. In fact, I was gonna say actually, with the CDP, the great thing about it is that you can then use your coaching to help people identify what the triggers are what they need to do or give them tools. But the role playing is fantastic. Because one of the things that really challenges people is when that subconscious is really using what it knows, what is already stored. So the role-playing is fantastic because you're creating new wiring for them, which then, when they go into the real situation or a situation that really gets them triggered again, they remember that role play. Oh wow, I love that. I love the I love that. And role playing always is so powerful, always so powerful. So the fact that you use that a lot. And I know when I spoke to you, you did say that that's a big part of what you do, and I think that's great. I was actually going to ask you to give an example or a case study of someone who you've done it, but you've already done that with the lady that really wanted and wanted a pay rise, but was so couldn't do it, which is so common. Um, but being able to find out why and do that role play and going over what you're doing is creating new wiring in the brain so that when you go there, like you said, it's being calm, so that the emotional part of the brain is not activated, so you can be intentional about what you're asking for. Because once the emotional brain is activated, it shuts down our thinking brain, and which is why we get there and go blank, literally, or forget everything that's been practiced. I love, I love what you do so much because it's it's just so needed. And it's something that, like I said, everyone can use from you know be their professional life, but also in their personal lives as well. So, oh wow. No, well done. So, yes, um, in terms of um how people can work with you or where they can find you, how how does that work? And do you how do you actually work with people? I know we've talked about using the um CDP quite a bit, but is there any other way of how people can contact you? And also maybe just touching again on the kind of people that would want to contact you, shall we if they're going through things as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:53

Yeah, yeah, definitely. You know, um, as you were talking, what it reminded me of is just how much time is wasted, you know, how many unnecessary meetings have to take place sometimes because there's just this underlying level of conflict. And if you're, you know, most people who get to a leadership level, whether it's a manager or um, you know, even a C-suite level person, um, but even just, you know, let's just say you're a Scrum Master or you're a software development lead, you know, if you're usually you're kind of there because you at least have a certain level of skill set and you can kind of tell, you know, sometimes, you know, if you're if you're present to your job, you can tell that there's some sort of underlying issue going on. And um, and then you're gonna mostly see it in performance or people avoiding you. That was my favorite. People would literally avoid me. Um, so if you're if you're finding that, if you're finding just there seems to be something off, um, maybe you see, you know, a couple of people off in the corner and they are just always kind of complaining or talking to each other, and and then when you get the team together, it just seems like there's not cohesiveness. Those are the things that you're looking for to say, hmm, you know, maybe there's something that I can shore up in my leadership to demonstrate a better model of uh communicating openly and having that trust. So, how can I foster trust? Because sometimes as a leader, we don't we don't know that unknowingly we're chipping away at the psychological safety, the the trust that people um that brings people together as a team, not just a group of individuals. Because guess what? If you have just a group of individuals and you're trying to go towards a goal, just think about all of those CDP behaviors that are going on individually. How can you get that team to work better together? And that often, unfortunately, often that falls on as responsibility of the leadership to make sure that that's not happening. So if if anybody who's listening who's out there, you know, going, hmm, okay, I know something's a little off, you can reach out. Um, I can uh have a conversation with you. So one of the things if you go to Bazangconsulting.com, you know, there will be um a location there that you can actually just uh set up, you know, uh like a consultation call. And uh and that's just a great way. Um I'm I'm I was like this as a coach, and even in my career, it's like, look, if you're not a good fit for what I'm doing, I got other resources. So let's have a conversation. And if you know what I do can help, great. If not, there are other people I know like yourself, Maureen. You do some great training that helps leaders with the emotional intelligence component. So uh yeah, so bizengconsulting.com and then uh for your listeners here, if they go to the CDP page, so we're gonna have um it'll be like forward slash CDP, and that's C as in cat, D as in dog, P, as in penguin. Um, if you go there, there'll also be a little special for for your listeners um that they can uh contact us and and do a CDP session and assessment actually uh for free. So I'm giving like two of those away to your listeners if they're if they're interested. Thank you because it's so important. Yeah, yeah. This has been just it's just so delightful, Maureen. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 39:33

Yeah, no, honestly, listeners, if you're out there and you think this will be useful for you, you've got the opportunity of taking it free and having that conversation with Janice. So take that up because it's so important. And I love how Janice actually mentioned the fact that behaviors can change. So the fact is that whatever is going on, it can change because it's just people understanding what is causing the trigger, what is making them uncomfortable, what is getting them agitated, what is causing the anxiety, what is causing the stress. You it can be done. And it really has to start with the leader identifying it and helping their people um, you know, resolve that conflict. And the conflict might even be between you, the leader and a team member, but there are opportunities. You can this can be done. And Janice is amazing at what she does. You can see from this conversation how passionate she is about what she does. So please do reach out to her, put her details in the description as well. And I think there's something that Janice touched on, which I love, and that's trust, being able to build that trust. And it really is so important. And Janice, I'm just going to ask you as a final word, what have you found out over time that really makes a difference? I know trust is one that you know, something that really helps really resolve this conflict quite quickly. And any last word of advice you can give our listeners as well would be awesome.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Yeah, becoming a good listener. I'm gonna say I think that is if there was any superpower I have, it's just showing up and being curious about the person sitting across from me. And when I'm curious, it gets me out of my head, out of my emotions, and I can sit with that person, and no matter what they're doing, I I can listen. So that's what I would offer. Become become curious about your fellow human travelers here.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

I love that. I love that listening, good listening, and being curious, and that takes the focus off you and really onto them, because you really want, you know, it's it's that it's amazing because when people believe that you care, they would really open up and do their best to make you happy. They want to make you happy once they believe you care. So just being able to listen, because a lot of times as human beings, what we're doing is somebody is talking and we're already processing things, and our brain is already going, we're not listening, and it's obvious, but we don't realize it's obvious. So, listening, I love those listening and being curious. Thank you so much, Janice. You have been absolutely amazing. I'm so pleased I got to meet you. I'm so pleased that you come onto this podcast. And um, I really am looking forward to hearing from listeners how your work with Janice went, because I know it's going to be amazing. Because honestly, everything that goes on, our behavior pattern is driven by what goes on in our brain. Changing those behaviors changes the results that you get at the end. Thank you once again, Janice, for coming on to Lead to Excel Podcast. Thank you, Maureen. Okay, three things before we finish today. Have you subscribed to this podcast? If you haven't, make sure you click that subscribe button wherever you listen to this podcast. Because once you subscribe, you will not miss an episode. And as usual, if you have a topic you would love me to speak about or bring a guest on, do let me know by leaving a review. Finally, do have a fantastic week. And remember that you are limitless. So I look forward to seeing you in our next episode. Bye for now.